Disfellowship Of One Church Against Another
I have been without the Internet for a while. Now have faster wireless Internet. Thank you for your patience.
I am troubled by what I have seen lately among some churches and that is churches dis-fellowshiping believe it or not other churches for things that they disagree about or don't see as Biblical (which usually isn't anything having to do with salvation at all). The questions I have:
Does the Bible give authority for a church to dis-fellowship another church? Where is that authority in the Bible? Is there example of the Corinthian church dis-fellowshiping the Roman church? Why do some Churches think they have the right to do so? Does this go against Christian unity? Do we believe in church being autonomous from each other? Have you seen this and do you have any problems with churches acting in this kind of behavior towards another? What can be done to solve this problem that is occuring between some churches? How can Christians make a difference on this unbiblical practice?
What do you think?
Share your thoughts.
posted by preacherman @ 9:46:00 AM
43 Comments:
This is something I have thought about at length before. In brief, here are my two thoughts on this topic.
1. If we are going to follow the New Testament pattern of congregational autonomy, then we automatically disqualify ourselves from such actions. It is impossible for an autonomous entity to remove fellowship from another autonomous entity!
2. However, if the eldership of one congregation sees a practice that goes against Scripture at another location, they still need to (1) teach, and (2) warn about such. While they cannot disfellowship, giving helpful information is a major part of shepherding.
I guess the idea of dis-fellowship means that there once was fellowship? I wonder what it means to fellowship one another at an organizational level. Does it mean that leaders who once shared meals together no longer do such? Guess the questions you offer simply confuse me Kinney. Possibly you could provide some helpful details?
Kansas Bob,
I am sorry for the confusion. Yes it would me what you imply as well. Eating and interaction. Let me give one example. I know a church who believes accapella music is the only biblical way to worship God in worship, pronounced from the pulpit that they would no long fellowship a church within that denomination that decided to use instruments on Sundays. Another church announced from the pulpit they they would no longer fellowship another congregation as a whole because of their stance on women leadership within the church. Another disfellowshed another on the basis of having a gym, bible version, etc.
What defines "against scripture" as Adam puts it? For example, my denomination believes in the Ordination of women as pastors; others disagree with this practice. So our denomination should take "warnings about such" from other denominations that don't? If we really disagree on ESSENTIALS (salvation, Baptism, etc.) it's fine to disagree; and even perhaps suggest why you feel differently. I don't think it's right to dis-fellowship except in the case of such serious infractions that the Case for Christ is being destroyed (and even then it has to be in harmony with Christ's love for the world).
How did those churches fellowship before they dis-fellowshipped? Did they hold joint services or cosponsor conventions? What is the impact on the flock? Is the dis-fellowship just a lot of posturing by self-important leaders that have no real impact on those who follow them?
If they are not against us, they are for us.
"And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again." - John 10:16-17
Kansas Bob,
Most likely not. Just by sharing the same name on the building in common whether it is Church of Christ, baptist, etc. Never sharing joint services, sponsorship, shared leadership, etc. You make excellent points and great questions.
Adam and Bruce,
I can understand the warnings but can't and shouldn't Christians make up their own minds what they believe even if the leadership of those churches have different opinions? Doesn't everyone have different opinions? What do ya'll think?
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dan,
Great point and scripture!
What happened to the "New Covenant" anyway.
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hbr 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
"And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
Kansas Bob is onto something. I have been amused over the past few years at people announcing they will no longer have fellowship with a church they never had fellowship with to start with.
Many of our actions are just the silly actions of immature Christians at best and at worst people just playing the religion game.
Royce
You are right to be troubled. There is just no scriptural precedent for this.
In order to get at a solution, I would imagine you would need to identify characteristics beyond a church's belief on a particular stance and try to determine some kind of profile or personality for each congregation. This would help determine how to approach the problem.
For example, in most cases I have seen related to this subject, the problem seems to stem from two elements
1. It seems that congregations that are made up of mostly members with an inferior education (lacking a quality college education) are the ones "dis-fellowshipping" other congregations who general make up consists of college graduates and influential members of society.
This is not to say that those without a college degree are not capable of thinking. It's simply an observance from my personal experience.
2. Gossip is the other reason. Most reactions are based on collective hearsay that morphs into a mob mentality and even if a conversation between two opposing parties took place, the predispositions prevent either party from having a meaningful discussion in order to come to a resolution.
The scriptural angle you bring up is an interesting one. Good food for thought.
hey there preacherman
hope you and yours are Well :)
Tough questions. It would seem to me that when disfellowship happens for the reasons that you stated, instruments, women, Bible versions, etc. that the church is being led more by legalities than the Spirit and love. It is especially disturbing if there is no fellowship between the churches to start with. Therefore, it would seem that this action is being taken more to make a statement than for the care of the flock. This is hateful and hurtful.
In my opinion, disfellowship should only be done in extreme circumstances where a church is being led by false teachers who are teaching another gospel. And when there is actually fellowship between two bodies and that fellowship with false teachers is leading some astray. I don't have specific scripture for this, however, we are told to treat those living in unrepented sin as sinners and tax collectors (Matt. 18). Though I don't believe this to mean disfellowship, rather it means to treat them as those who need to truly know the love and forgiveness found in Christ our Lord.
I'm sure most of us would agree that it's a deeply sorry sight to see Christians sulking in corners and mutually anathematizing each other. Refusing communion is even sorrier. Whatever the Lord's Supper has become it started off as celebration and hospitality. Whatever our differences there's something healing about love, joyfulness and broken bread around a common table.
I agree with Sattler about the Lord's supper. Jesus died to spread that table.. it is His table! Sad when churches/denominations feel that they own the table.
Sooo...They're no longer going to eat together, hold joint bake sales, no longer have joint car washes? Exactly what are they no longer going to do?
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
The fellowship that Churches share:
1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
2 John 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. (10) If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: (11) For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Colossians 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
We read letters from other Churches and go by them all the time. We call it the New Testament.
All nations shall be judged by those letters and books written to those Churches.
God did not provide us a Bible so that we could over-look it, ignore it, or claim those who read it are legalist. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
It contains instructions and warnings about ignoring those instructions. The Bible is not a book with blank pages that we are to fill up with what we think.
Read this verse carefully:
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Who enters heaven? Those that did mighty works? Those that called upon His name? Jesus said in His sermon on the mount, "he that doeth the will of the father".
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. The fellowship that Churches share: 1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 2 John 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. (10) If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: (11) For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
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