Do you believe in hell? If so, why? If not why not? What do you think hell is? Is it eternal fire? Separation from God? What is it? Is it eternal? Temporary? Do you believe that there are different levels of hell? Or is hell something the Church made up to scare and control others to believe a certain way?
posted by preacherman @ 1:05:00 AM
I was born and raised in Abilene, Tx. Graduated from Abilene High. Woodlawn Church of Christ is my home congregation, where my dad serves as an elder. I am a graduate of Lubbock Christian University. I have a wonderful loving wife and boys who are the greatest blessing and joy in my life. My favorite scripture is: 1 Timothy 4:12 "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young but set an example to the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity." GBS
49 Comments:
I do not want to believe in hell. I want all to be saved. However, I do believe in hell because the Scriptures say so. Despite, the questions and doubt raised by the recent book "Love Wins" by Rob Bell, scripture is clear. Hell is an eternal punishment of lament and fire separted from God. It is in the place reserved for the devil and his angels. There is no second chance for salvation after death. I have to submit to scripture, no matter how uncomfortable and trust God that He knows things I don't. His ways are higher than mine and His thoughts higher than mine. I cannot conform doctrine to suit my comfort as many seem to be doing. If I begin with the presupposition that "God couldn't possibly________" then I make a major mistake in interpreting scripture, reading my personal desire into the text. I do believe the doctrine od hell has been used to manipulate and frighten people into a decision for Christ or to control morality. This is a gross misuse of authority and has done damage to the body of Christ and her witness in the world. Hell is not meant to bring people to Christ. It is the kindness of God that leads to repentance.
I do believe that Hell is the place where those angels cast from Heaven in the OT were committed to.
What I do not believe is that human souls belonging to the unbeliever are confined there after death.
I spent 15 years partnered to a Adventist and I had the opportunity to study what they believe and how it contrasts 98% of modern day Christendom. I also got to look at how the early church viewed life after death along with the Jews and the conclusion I came to is that neither Heaven or Hell exist for modern day humanity. The book of Revelation along with many of Paul's writings show us plainly that We will rise again and be judged. God being ever merciful will extinguish the existence of the nonbeliever while those who have believed in Him will move on to eternal life on the new Earth.
When you stop to think about it, it really is a beautiful plan.
I firmly believe this is true evidence of "free will".
Of course many of my peers in my denomination (Episcopal Church USA)prefer to believe the way that was set forth by Roman Dogma for the 1000 or so years. That to me is the beauty of the Episcopal Church. We can all worship in the same way and agree on the key points of Eucharist and Repentance while disagreeing on the way we reason out the rest of it all.
The bigger reality is God's infinite wisdom is bigger than all of it which allows us to be who and what we choose to be as long as the focus of it all is bringing people in this world to a knowledge of Jesus as Lord and Savior. I just see myself as preferring to do it without trying to scare the "hell" out of anyone.
No I don't believe in hell. I think it is something created to control others.
My view is very much the same as Scott's, and he stated it well. By that I mean that he says no more and less than what scripture says!
If you believe in the Bible, you believe in hell now. If you don't believe in the Bible, you will also believe in hell... just after you die.
The writer of Matthew had a particular fascination with what Christians have come to refer as hell. If the gospel of Matthew was removed from the Bible, 90% of the so called references to hell (gehenna) would be eliminated from the Christian tradition. He expounded and expanded on the subject. Most of the horrific perceptions which mainline Christianity has about this misinterpreted concept, comes from the writer of this gospel. Although we cannot attribute to Matthew the creation of the twisted interpretation that is hell today (that credit must go to Augustine of Hippo) it was certainly the emphasis of the writer of Matthew. The early church would then adopt "hell" as a technique of behavior control by means of reward and punishment.
The writer of Matthew had a particular fascination with what Christians have come to refer as hell. If the gospel of Matthew was removed from the Bible, 90% of the so called references to hell (gehenna) would be eliminated from the Christian tradition. He expounded and expanded on the subject. Most of the horrific perceptions which mainline Christianity has about this misinterpreted concept, comes from the writer of this gospel. Although we cannot attribute to Matthew the creation of the twisted interpretation that is hell today (that credit must go to Augustine of Hippo) it was certainly the emphasis of the writer of Matthew. The early church would then adopt "hell" as a technique of behavior control by means of reward and punishment.
Sorry about the double post.
The writer of Matthew had a particular fascination with what Christians have come to refer as hell. If the gospel of Matthew was removed from the Bible, 90% of the so called references to hell (gehenna) would be eliminated from the Christian tradition. He expounded and expanded on the subject. Most of the horrific perceptions which mainline Christianity has about this misinterpreted concept, comes from the writer of this gospel. Although we cannot attribute to Matthew the creation of the twisted interpretation that is hell today (that credit must go to Augustine of Hippo) it was certainly the emphasis of the writer of Matthew. The early church would then adopt "hell" as a technique of behavior control by means of reward and punishment.
How can one say that God is love and then verbalize the following beliefs?
1- God’s grand plan was to have 90% of the people He created suffer torment in hell. Only those who confess Jesus will be saved and the rest of the world. All the rest (166 Billion people since life began) will suffer punishment eternally
2- If a baby isn’t baptized before they die they are going to hell.
3- Anyone who lives an excellent and moral life but does not confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior will burn in hell eternally.
4- God demands that we forgive 70 x 7 but He won’t forgive us.
5- An eternal-infinite hell awaits those who committed finite sins.
6- Anyone who commits suicide will burn forever in the fires of hell.
7-The Good News was only for a small minority of the world’s population- for the rest it’s bad news: maybe even a nightmare!
8- Free will is more powerful than any plan that God had or has.
Tell me again about this God who is LOVE?
I don't believe in Hell in the sense that it's somewhere we go when we die. The Hell concept is a "control mechanism" for the masses, to keep people from doing what religious leaders don't want them to do. Not my cup of tea.
On a logical level the ship sinks just outside of the harbor. Hell is so obviously a human concept. I cannot begin to fathom why an all powerful God would be so sadistic as to create Hell and fill it with his creations. It's something Adolf Hitler would come up with on a rainy, boring day.
I do, however, feel that we can suffer a sort of "hell on Earth". Mental Illness, disease, and poverty are gateways into this realm. It's very real for many people. But it's also temporary in that it can be gotten out of with the right change in mindset. It's not an "end", but one more pathway of life.
I believe what Scripture says, and these other commentators apparently don't care, don't know, or pick-and-choose what they accept from Scripture (Genesis-Revelation). Rob Bell, Adventists, and others that refuse to accept the plain doctrine of Hell found plainly in Scripture won't have to answer to me but the One who preached the most about the reality of Hell, Jesus of Nazareth.
I think hell, as a physical place of damnation, sounds a little mythological. I'm still searching a lot spiritually as to what I believe..I talk a lot about it on my blog. I used to believe that hell was the eternal separation of God..but I view Jesus and the gospel differently now. I see hell as something we can experience here on earth. When it comes to the afterlife..I believe God's salvation is universal, for all, and we all go back into the love from which we were first conceived.
I was actually surprised to see how many people seem to believe not so much in a God of Love, but a god of "Love Me or Burn".
Sure that is also how I read Matthew 10:33, but I also feel free to disagree with the author of Matthew.
There are enough different and conflicting views in scripture that those who do believe in the whole thing can take their pick. So why then does the doctrine of "love me or burn" continue to have traction?
The question for me is why has this notion of "love me or burn" persisted for so long. It neither resonates with human moral sentiment nor with the idea of a good God. (Sure, you might believe and fear such a god, but it's pretty hard to imagine that such a god with worthy of your love.)
I think it is because it is a notion that is successful at maintaining religion. Consider two variants of the same religion with the only difference that one says you have to believe it to avoid eternal punishment. The one with that variant will almost certainly do a better job of preventing its members from questioning.
So that is why I think that this really atrocious bit of theology has survived for millennia.
I reserve what I believe in to a very small community. I believe in God and His redemptive work through Spirit and Son. I believe in a coming Kingdom. I believe in my Family and Friends and I believe in Hope.
One of the key points to my original post I should have mentioned is that the reality in coming from a place that does not believe in Hell in the modern day religious sense is that I also do not believe in the Heaven in as well.
I believe Heaven exists for God and for those taken there following the Resurrection and Ascension of Christ following the Crucifixion.
I am firmly grounded in the belief that when we die consciousness ceases. Again I go back to the writings of Paul especially in 1 Thessalonians. He referred to death as sleep. When we sleep there is no awareness.
I openly will tell my friends and foes alike that I do not believe in life after death but I believe in life after Resurrection.
If we look at the Nicene Creed...it reads plainly Resurrection first...eternal life second. Every time I recite that, I claim that as being what I believe.
Anonymous 11:34 AM;
I really like your comment.:-)
I assume you are the same as Ano. 5:35 PM.
OK Bob;
I would like to tell you about this "God who is Love" in case you don't know Him.
It was this God who is Love who hung on the cross of Calvary for my sins and the sins of the world.
It was this God of Love who created all things, and nothing came into being apart from Him (John 1:1…).
It was this God of Love who created HELL so that all of His children who love Him would not be in the same place as Satan's children who are God-haters and reprobates.
It is this God of Love who has the power to save you from the pits of HELL and lift you up into heavenly places.
It is this God of Love who said;
"In HELL he lifted up his eyes and called out to Abraham" (Luke 16:23…).
Don; If you are in agony and in utter torment, then it makes no difference what you call it and whether you believe it or not.
If this torment and pain goes on and on and never ever stops, would it make a difference whether you call it 'a place of suffering or HELL' or any other name?
And listen to the words of Love, "I tell you! Unless you repent you too will perish" (Luke 13:2-3).
I think you get my drift.
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Heb. 10:31, and you should fear Him who is able to throw body and soul into HELL (Luke 12:5).
Paul
Does it make sense that God give us a choice to follow or not but then says if you don't follow me you will BURN! Is that love?
I believe in hell. I believe hell is now and heaven is later.
The wrath of God unleashed upon those who refuse to trust Jesus. Are the details that important? When you are a target for God's furious wrath it is a very bad thing.
God makes a gracious offer to all those who will do a u-turn and simply put their whole trust in Jesus, sins removed and eternal life! And, it is said of those people they "are not appointed to wrath".
Thanks Jessica for sharing a bit of your spiritual search.
If you happened to read this comment, I'd like to say that any spiritual search is an endless search and you never will be fully satisfied till you have come to the Lord Jesus Christ, by that I mean with all your heart so that you might be born again, and only then your search has ended. "Then you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven" (Hebr. 12:22-24).
Those who have found are more blessed than those who search.
Kind regards
Paul
Anonymous 9.09 AM;
You don't have a choice to follow the Lord Jesus and neither do you have a choice to go to heaven or hell.
Those choices do not belong to you but to the Lord Jesus Christ alone.
You only would follow the Lord as long as He would be your servant to satisfy your wandering desires.
Tell me, which man in his right mind would choose hell?
If all would choose heaven, then why is there a hell?
If all would choose health, then why do they suffer in sickness and torment?
Paul
David;
Do you think that you are in hell now, and when you have suffered enough for your sins then you will go to heaven? ;-)
Paul
I believe that some will live with God forever and some will be eternally separated from Him.
Like Royce said, how many more details than that do we need? With God will be light, love, and life. Apart from Him, none of those things will exist.
There are several words in scripture that are translated as "hell". Which one are you asking about: Sheol? Yep, I believe in that one. Hades? Same place as sheol. Tartarus? Nope, that's from Greek mythology...God ain't Zeus. Gehenna? Yep, but only in the Jewish sense of the word.(Jesus WAS a Jew, after all). And that pesky "Lake of Fire" that ISN'T called "hell" in scripture? Yep, I believe a lot of folks are gonna get baptized there. I believe God when He says, in Jeremiah 32:27 “I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me? I also believe Jesus, when he says in John 12:32 "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
I appreciate everyone for joining in this discussion. I think it is great to have a so many thoughts and opinions about this topic.
Some more questions to ponder:
Does it seem right to be punished for eternity for something done in this temporary existence? Is it hell not Jesus DEMANDING love and obedience? If so, is that love? What does a place called hell tell us about God?
I don't think it is love to demand it. Hell makes no sense. If Christians would just think for themselves.
Hell is made up to scare people. Worst part of the Christian lie!
Hell is just fairy tail
Luk 16:22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.
Luk 16:23 In hell, [fn] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
So if we are to take this parable literally, there is a hell with eternal flames, but if this is literal, and Luke quotes Abraham correctly, all we have to do to gain heaven and eternal life, is to live in poverty and pain upon this earth.
No I don't believe Jesus ever spoke of a literal place of eternal torture.
Laymond
Don, I am truly amazed at your ignorance of Scripture.
2 Peter 3:9
Now tell me exactly what it is that God owes you?
I don't believe in Hell...How could you believe in hell and a God of love. Doesn't work.
I'm amazed that so many commentators do not believe in a burning hell of suffering.
It's just as the Lord Jesus said in (Luke 16:26), even if their dead brothers would come back from the dead and tell them that there is a place of intense suffering called 'HELL', they still would not believe them, Jesus and the Scripture that there is a HELL.
Paul, if you believe the story in Luke was factual, instead of a parable, you have to disbelieve the following scripture.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
If when a person dies they go straight to heaven or hell, there is no need for a judgment day.
Laymond
As I have said, I don't believe there it a place of "ETERNAL TORTURE" but that said the bible plainly states that there is a fire of distruction of the damned.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
If you notice it is described as the second death, not eternal torture--but I am sure neither is a pleasent experince.
Laymond
If something isn't logical fear is always an option. Lets scare people into following our movement.
Laymond;
Yes there is a great need for a judgment day for all sinners and unbelievers, where everyone will be punished for their sins, except those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. They are the saved ones who have escaped the judgment day of God, because the Lord Jesus was judged, punished and tortured for their sins and transgressions on the cross of Calvary and by His stripes they are healed, saved and secure in Christ Jesus their Lord and God.
Thanks for quoting all those verses from Mat.13:38 to Rev. 21:8, they surely are scary.
The first death are the unbelieving and unregenerate, they are dead in their sins and trespasses, (death means separation) so they are separated from the true spiritual life which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Their second death is exactly as the Bible said hell, fire, brimstone, eternal torture and suffering etc. they also are separated from forgiveness, love and mercies of the Lord Jesus, their second death.
Eternal torture or eternal suffering; I see that to be 'ongoing' for ever and ever till completed. That is for every hell bound individual consecutive till completed.
I know the Lord Jesus to be absolutely just, therefore He does not punish a nation, an individual or a baby for sins they did not commit.
Paul
Anonymous 11:51AM
It would do you good to have a healthy fear of the Lord which would make you wise unto salvation. (Prov.9:10)
I will never believe in hell. Jesus would never send someone to hell that he died for.
Anonymous;
Jesus did not die for those who are in hell, those in hell are the goats, and Jesus laid down His life for the sheep. (John 10:11)
If the Lord Jesus does not send them to hell, then who do you think will send them to hell
I'll be the first to say, I wish hell were not for real. I'll also stand my ground, and say we can't wish away the part of scripture that is uncomfortable to us, while we cling to that which gives us a warm and fuzzy feeling. We had better examine scripture, and remember "all scripture is inspired by God......".
1. Hell is a place of eternal destruction (Mt. 10:28).
2. Hell is described as a place where the fire will never be quenched (Mk. 9:43).
3. Hell is described as a place of torment (Lk. 16:23-34).
4. Hell is described as a place of outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Mt. 25:30).
5. Hell is described as a place of fire and brimstone where there is never any rest (Rev. 20:10).
Hell is indeed the place of eternal punishment for those who refuse to acknowledge, and obey, Jesus Christ.
If you don't think it is real, please open up that bible, and read it. If you still don't believe in it, please find someone to study with, because Satan has seized a piece of your heart, and lead you to believe a lie. Start with prayer, and let God lead you to the truth. Don't take any body's word for it, including mine. Scripture will get you the answers you need. Man will lead you astray.
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