Suffering.
One thing I have learned even as a young man is that everyone has their own problems. There are some people that have more share of the suffering in this world.
Ever since the fall in the garden the earth has been cursed and sin has come into the world. There are some problems that are consequences of sin (having an affair can lead to divorce, sexual immorality can lead to sexually transmited diseases, telling a lie can lead to mistrust and spending too much can lead to debt).
Other problems just happen because of genetics (predispositions to heart disease and certain types of cancers). Still, other problems just happen out of enviornement and noone knows why. Jesus even knew that situation in his respone to the Pharasees when asked, "Who sinned that this man was born blind? Him or his parents?" Jesus replied, "neither." (
I am suffering from the pain of GBS. I thank everyone for your prayers
I have a prayer request. Lane Pepper, a nephew of one of our members has had his fair share of suffering. He is a young man in his twenties and suffered with cancer not once but twice. With surgeries and radiation treatments, they thought he and his wife would never be able to have babies. A mircle happened, and his wife, to doctors amazement, became pregnant. At the last doctors apointment, they thought the baby might have Downs Syndrome, but it turned out to be worse: cysts on the baby's brain. There will be an MRI tomorrow please keep Lane's family in your prayers.
So, why does God allow suffering to occur? Does God really give us more than we can bare? I sometimes am on the edge of what I can handle-have you ever been there? Why does it seem that the righteous suffer while the wicked prosper?
What do you think?
Share your thoughts.
posted by preacherman @ 4:56:00 PM
69 Comments:
Fr. John Corapi loves that question: "why does God permit evil?" He answers it by pointing to the crucifix, to Jesus on the cross. "God permits evil to bring a greater good out of it."
And it is the same with suffering in general. I have two words in particular: salvifici doloris, that is, "salvific suffering", or suffering that is ordered unto salvation. Before you go crying "heresy!" at me, let me explain.
Suffering is never personal, because our humanity is never meant to be strictly personal; it is meant to be interpersonal, a communion. Now to be sure, suffering produces endurance, which produces character, which produces hope, and hope does not disappoint. (cf. Rom 5:3-5) And we make up in our flesh what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body which is the Church. (cf. Col 1:24)
But there's more to the story than just that, straight of the mouth of Jesus himself. Your suffering is not only a means of growing closer to God through faithfulness, but it is a means of salvation for others! How can that be? Because in ministering to one who is suffering, you are ministering to Christ Jesus himself. (cf. Matt 25:31-46)
I will let others answer your questions, due to lack of time on my part (not to mention a lack of wisdom most likely). I just want to let you know that I am praying for you, Lane, his wife, and their baby.
Preacherman what a wonderful post and questions. I think we suffer for many reasons like you mentioned. The curse and sin. Genetics. Countless other reasons. I think during those times it draws us closer to God. I don't know all the answers. You ask great questions.
I will pray for you and your family. Lane and his family that all will work out.
I cannot answer the question about why people suffer, nor why some people suffer so much more than others. Life is not "fair", but we have an inborn desire for fairness and equality. It is hard for us to accept the unfairness we see around us -- especially when we are the ones carrying an unfair burden.
The best thing I know is to keep your hope on heaven. I believe God will make it all fair in the end. Many who are last will be first. Every tear will be wiped away. There will be no more pain. Our troubles in this life will seem light and momentary when compared to what is to come.
Meanwhile I'll pray for you and your friend.
Preacherman,
I'll keep Lane and his wife in my prayers.
Preacherman,
You ask the question of all questions? I like Alan don't understand it all but I know when I suffer I pray. I will pray keep you in my prayers like I do as well as Lane and his family.
I don't have a good answer here. Many times answers to such questions can seem so flipant in the light of great suffering.
One thing I have learned, there are only two types of people in the world, those who are hurting and those who one day will be hurting.
Oy, you know how to stir it up.
Praying for Lane and family.
This is one of those times when you might puzzle over the theology in your own mind, but you keep your mouth shut, put on your sackcloth and sit with them in ash heap, weeping.
Wanted you to know I was praying as well.
Its so much harder I think when its your children who are having to suffer. My daughter was diagnosed with cancer when she was 9 months old. I wrote a short something about it here if your interested.
Yeah that is a hard one to answer in a way that makes sense to us. Because we dont always think like God does. The root of it I believe is simply this, we live in a fallen world.
You'll definitely be in my prayers, preacherman. I had no idea you had GBS. That has actually been listed among the possibilities of what I am suffering with, so I feel a kinship with you there, and will have no problem remembering to lift you up in my prayers.
May God grant you relief, and quickly.
And may He intervene in Lane and his family's circumstances as well.
Brian,
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I want every viewer to visit what you had to say about your 9 mo old precious girl. It moved me to tears.
Shane,
I am glad that you don't have GBS. I will continue to keep you in my prayers too brother.
I get frustrated when so many righteous people suffer. I then think of eternity. I am calmed by his presence in my life. Thank you Preacherman for these wonderful topics.
I will be praying for Lane, his wife and the baby.
Kinney,
Brother you have been in my thoughts and prayers since I heard of your struggles again. It is so good to hear you are doing better and that you and your family are continuing to bless the congregation at Rock Springs. Leslye and I are still in Stephenville, and actually about to buy a house. Come and visit any time. I was just reminded the other day about my blog, so I figured I would check everyone else's as well. Great job, your words continue to be a blessing to me. God bless you my friend and hope to hear from you soon.
We will add Lane and his family in our prayers as well.
Blessings on you and yours,
Joey
Kinney,
All suffering is a consequence of sin. It may not be our sin that we suffer from, but, possibly, the sin of others.
For years chemical companies and others dumped their garbage in our back yards, mostly knowing that it was unsafe, but wanting to make more profit. Many cancers and other diseases have been the result of this lack of respect for human life.
A family is killed in a car accident by a drunk driver. Did the family sin and deserve this? Not necessarily. They were killed because of someone elses sin.
When we accept Christ, we are saved for etenal life. It does not mean that we will be saved from the consequences of sin on this earth, though sometimes, for reasons that we cannot fathom, we are protected.
We continually cry out the question to God, "Why do you allow suffering if You are a loving God?"
Then, as a people of this earth, we turn and sin again. Maybe not us personally, but as a society, we don't want to take the blame for our actions. It is easier to blame a God that many don't even believe in. Now, doesn't that make sense? (facetious comment)
Hi PM,
hope ya are feeling better!
and too will say a prayer for that young couple!
have a great weekend
I will continue to remember you, and I will also add Lane to my list. Thanks for sharing his story with us!
In HIM,
DU
I'm praying!!!
Preacherman I am praying for Lane and his family that all will go well.
A P.S. to my comment.
I am praying for you, and now am adding Lane to my prayers. I know that our God is good, and will aid us in our suffering. Keep up the great posts. They really make me think.
Keith
Preacherman,
We will be praying for Lane. Thank you for being a good pastor to your people and inviting the greater "body of Christ" to enter into Lane's suffering.
God bless you!
Preacherman,
The above "anonymous" comment was from me. Sorry. I goofed on the comment page.
John Frye
Kinney,
Thanks for stopping by my blog and leaving the encouraging comment. I will keep you and the peron you mentioned in my prayers as god brings you to remembrance.
Taking both Keith and Japhy's comments together, I think that all suffering is a result of sin...either directly (a child is killed by a drunk driver) or indirectly (sin brought death into the world). But since "all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord," God redeems suffering and uses it to bring about a greater purpose.
Why? This I will think on this day - why does God allow? I enjoyed the post and the comments. but this I know some seem to deal better with their suffering than others, I wonder why as well?
My prayers are with you.
Preacherman,
Another good post to get the grey matter working overtime. LOL.
I think man will always struggle with the question of suffering while we live in this fallen world. I believe that that is the simplest explanation, although not to make light of suffering. Sin is the reason why there is suffering. Praise God that one day there will be NO more suffering. Amen. When Jesus returns he will make all injustices right and make all suffering cease and sin will be no more. Amen. But, I also asked God many times about why the righteous seem to suffer and the wicked seem to prosper. I got my answer in the Bible a while back. Your question was, "Why does it seem that the righteous suffer while the wicked prosper?" Well, the Bible gives the reason in the OT somewhere. I don't have time to look it up but it says somewhere, and God is speaking in the text, that the wicked prosper in order that they may enjoy life while they have it. Because God knows that the end for them is eternal death and suffering in hell, he wants to give them grace for this life at least. See, God is good and does extend unmerited grace to all, not just Christians. How's that for your theology? LOL. The text also explains that the suffering that the righteous endure is for the salvation of their souls and the hope of salvation even for others. I believe the NT also explains sufferings in this same context. Anyway, I believe this is what the Bible says. Correct me if I am wrong. Maybe I will look it up later and post what I find on my own blog.
Great post as always.
Blessings.
Kinney
I know it is on your list, but bump up your reading of The Shack to the top of that list and lets talk after that!
I will be praying for Lane and his family. I will add them to our churches list in FL.
Woodlawn in Abilene will be praying for Lane and his family too. Woodlawn is a Church that believes in the power of prayer and spends much of its service on Sundays in prayer. I twice through their prayers among other churches have been blessed. I talked to my dad who is an elder and they will be praying a specail prayer Sunday night for Lane and his family. It is wonderful to know that God in the mist of our problems as has been said by Tim Woodroof, "God joins us on the ash heap of life and weeps with us."
Preacherman – I appreciate your honesty, your faith in God, and your trust in his children to lift you and your friends up before him. I need you to know that I have no wisdom for this situation, but I hear your heart, your pain and frustration…and I’m praying.
You have some great friends in blog land who obviously care deeply for you…and I’m sure it’s the same in your family and church family, you have a heart that clearly draws people to you.
Sometimes all our knowledge, plans, advice, and those we depend on (no knock on the comments shared here, there are some amazing, loving thoughts shared) leave us with more questions than answers – and confusion seems to be our normal state…in those moments no matter how difficult it is to believe…God sees us. My mind races to places in scripture where the Spirit inspired authors to write words like…God took notice, or God saw from Heaven, and when he took notice he moved on the behalf of those he noticed. I know he sees you brother, as well as Lane; I’ll be praying he moves in you lives, in powerful ways.
Brian’s story was so crushing and amazing, I smiled with tears in my eyes. Another thing…if I’ve been too bold, forgive me…you’re an encouraging man, and I only mean the same for you.
I appreciate you bro…in the words of someone I’ve not yet met “keep up the great blogging!”
This is the longest comment known to man...maybe next time I'll just say hi to make up for it. I doubt it though...
my questioin is...
must we have our conditions met before we believe in God's Love for us?
why must it be put in our understand and perspective of what Love is?
should we define what God is before we believe in the Father, His Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and God's Love for us. or can we believe and trust first and then be shown in God's timing of what this means.
does pain and suffering make it harder to believe in God's Love? does happiness and good health make it easier?
what does anyone have on this?
God bless you and your friend Kinney, you know I think about you often, I don't know how many could remain faithful as you have with your trials.have a good day.
Oh by the way, I would appreciate you opinion and comment on my last post. thanks in advance. love to you and yours.
all comments welcome.
there will always be questions.
and they seem to produce more questions.
faith is believing
without all of the answers.
trust is following without all of the answers.
love is what God is.
I really like your questions. It's one that's not without a difficult answer.
But if you look into Scriptures, many of those mentioned in Hebrews 11 had their own questions of God. Even Jesus.
So, I'm not going to give an easy answer, only I'll say that you join a great group of people in history who have asked.
I'm praying for Lane and his family. -CO
I am praying too.
Lane keep trusting God.
I will add Lane, his wife and baby to our prayer list!
How sad. Will pray and thanks for reminding us of your own struggle. I wonder how bad the pain is for you and if it's always present.
What a number of comments, as usual!
The problem of evil and suffering seem related to me, so I don't see any clear answer to it. Except we can see reasons why God would not want us to be happy with things the way they are. We need to know that something is wrong which only he can ultimately make right.
Good thoughts here, Kinney. And I know you'll be interested in my Saturday posting about our meeting with L.L. Barkat.
Ted,
I always have pain.
It hurts extremely bad.
I take lyrica and Hyrdo when it is too bad.
I also have been having migraines.
Thank you so much for your prayers for Lane.
Prayers mean so much during times of suffering.
I know suffering sucks.
I struggle and have struggled with how can got sit on his thrown while the innocent suffer. How can God watch children of all things starve, suffer with cancer, and hot at least help them? God is God yet does nothing. I believe he can do it. I have faith but it hurts my heart when I see especially children who have suffered with illness and other people who have suffered with too much suffering. I think this is why many people remain un-Christian or loose faith. Preacherman why? People say, sin. In your post you are right neither this man or his parents sinned that he was born blind. So, why? Isn't God ALL powerful. Can't he act? It sucks to see children suffer while the children of drug dealers are whole and healthy. It just burns me up. Sometimes seems like it would be better not to be Christian than Christian because Christians suffer more pain. I love Bryan Buttram's on did God create evil? He asks a great question? Everyone should check it out if they have time to read it. When I see the pictures of Bryan's girl it makes me angry and frustrated. Shane a righteous worship leader and you a minister have suffered your fair share brothers. I weep with you and your families.
I will add Lane and his family to our prayers list today.
So, let them know we are praying in AL.
I don't think we have all the answers and can understand why God allows people to suffer. I know that I will pray for Lane, his wife and family as well as you and Shane Coffman.
I love this Kinney..
Jesus replied, "neither."
..because it sets us free from having to have answers to the "why questions".
Often I hear God ask me this question..
Why do you want an easy life Bob?
I hate that question because it confronts a weakness that is within me.. a fearful and cowardly character flaw. The truth of the matter is that I have grown exponentially in hardship.. in pain.. in suffering.. these things bring out the absolute best in me.. it is what they were designed to do.. but I don't have to like it :)
Blessings of His love to you today!
Love, Bob
Bob,
You and Ann are always in my prayers.
Shane I will pray for you today as well brother.
I ask that everyone add Lane Pepper and his wife to their churches prayer list.
The more we have praying the better.
Thanks you so much everyone.
I just got off of the phone with my dad and one of the Ronquillo twins (a year old) is having breathing problems this morning so if you can add them to your prayer lists as well. God does listen and act even when he seems like he doesn't in our human minds. So, thanks to everyone for this prayer request.
I just don't see it enough around the world and with people I know and care about.
I don't think we can know why God allows suffering especially in little children and so much suffering in ones life. I hope that Lane keeps his faith in Christ. I know that we are promised a better life of no suffering if we keep our faith in God. Thank you Kinney for making us think about these tough questions that sometimes don't have answers or outcome we like I will pray for Lane and his wife here in Tenn.
lane pepper
his wife
their baby
your pain
sickness
disease
why is a very good question?
when our hearts ache and our minds can not understand. is it our fault? is it lack of faith for healing? is it a lesson we need to learn...or someone else we know needs to learn...or both? why?
i was at a dinner at the home of some folks that we know just last night. a couple was there with their 3 year old daughter. she was asking "why" about everything. i was thinking later that it was very important for her growth for later that she ask those questions now...and even more important that she get some good answers because she is building and growning upon these ideas and beliefs.
i suppose it is not so much different for you and i in our growing in our Spiritual life. so i guess it is good to have questions. and good answers when we can get them. and faith at the base of it all.
it really takes me some time to get through some of your questions, kinney!
thank you for your gracious patience.
prayer...
love to you and all
We need to understand that life isn't fair. It never has and never will. All we can do is pray. SO, Kinney please know I am praying for you, Lane's family and baby, Shane Coffman and alll the others that need our prayers. We will add all to our prayer request in Dallas.
I'm praying in Tx!!!!
We're praying in OK!!!!!
Lane you and your family is in our prayers here in Kansas.
Preacherman,
Milly is praying for you and those in this post.
You're one of my favs also. ;-}
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
imagine being a son...and your father has given you over to be a sacrifice. there is hot searing pain and more death and pain.
and Jesus asked of his Father...
"why"
why have you left me here to die
why have you left me here to suffer
why?
we ask why are we left here on earth to suffer and die?
do i not belong to you father?
why have you left me here to die?
in this moment on earth...we know we are separated from heaven.
this is not heaven.
why, father? why?
Each one of us suffer I think because of the cursed earth. The earth has been cursed so we suffer. We suffer until Christ returns and my pray is that he will return soon. Thanks Preacherman thank you for discussing topics that are so difficult.
i feel very sad and my heart is sad about your constant pain.
i feel sad for lane and his family.
i am sad about the brokenness of the world.
i pray for God to speak into your heart the message that you need to hear. may you continue in Him and He in you. in Jesus.
He just does.
Kinney have been in so much pain.
I know Shane has as well as they try and find out what is wrong and Lane and his wife suffer through this pregnancy. A pregnancy that looked to be a mircle. I can understand why one would want to drink the sorrow away. It does give one hope that God's son was a man familiar with suffering.
I want to thank everyone for their prayers as always.
I want to thank Shane for sharing his testimony with us on his blog.
Brian on his blog and please keep Shane in your prayers as well as Brian. It is never easy brother.
I also want to thank you so very much for remembering Lane, his wife and baby before God. He told his aunt, "Loosing faith was not an option." Lane, Melinie has been keeping in touch with me brother. I want to let you know what faith! What an example you are for us. I want to know prayer is powerful and that I am especially praying for your wife during this difficult time brother. I pray all goes well and that God demonstrates his healing power once again!
Like preacherman, one thing I have gained from my own experience lately is a new appreciation for others I know who struggle with chronic pain.
And a renewed sense of awe for those who handle it with so much grace - never complaining and continually full of joy.
I want to be that kind of person.
Not that in my own times of weakness I might not finding myself asking God the big "Why?" question. God is big enough to handle that question, and I am small enough to ask it.
But I pray for the grace to be able to live my life without being self-consumed.
Prayers for preacherman and Lane today. Thanks to all for their prayers for me. I consider myself richly blessed.
Shane,
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts and feelings with us all. I want you to know I totally understand brother. I want you to know you are in my thoughts and prayers. You are welcome here anytime day, or night.
I hope the pain gets better!
I don't know all the reasons for suffering and why some people suffer more than others. One things I do is try to rely on God during the suffering. I try to remember his promises.
Thank you everyone for your prayers.
Please remember Shane Coffman in your daily prayers for his pain.
As well as Lane, his wife and baby that alll will be well.
The
i appreciate you
I don't propose to know why but I do know Who. Yes, God knows.
Nothing comes into the life of a child of God without His knowledge and approval. In fact, according to Romans 8:28, suffering is one of the "all things" that God uses for "good" in the lives of those who trust Him.
I don't claim to understand Paul's glory in sufferings but I believe it is the right attitude and one God can use for His glory.
His peace,
Royce Ogle
Somethings in life we just don't know the "why", but I do believe suffering does teach us things about ourselves and about relying on God. It can move us to trust God more when we are suffering, and to get our minds off of ourselves and on to others when we see others suffering. Thank goodness there is a promise that all suffering shall come to an end one glorious day.
Tim
preacherman, it is written, we reap what we sew. With so much sin in the world, people do what they want not what God wants. And when illness comes people are shocked, remember God pays down to the third and, I think, fourth generation. So, when a newborn dies, they are suffering for the sins of the parents, grandparents, etc.
On top of all of this, we have to consider the evil in the world like fear. Fear cause many diseases.
God bless you, preacherman.
Servant21
"And when illness comes people are shocked, remember God pays down to the third and, I think, fourth generation. So, when a newborn dies, they are suffering for the sins of the parents, grandparents, etc."
The LORD turned that around with Ezekiel 18.
[1] The word of the LORD came to me again: [2] "What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, `The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'? [3] As I live, says the Lord GOD, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel."
That chapter shows how God prefers His mercy and longsuffering over His judgment: [23] "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? ... [32] For I have no pleasure in the death of any one, says the Lord GOD; so turn, and live."
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