The Economy & Faith
I was wondering. Does the economy affect our faith?
If so, how does it affect our faith?
Does it affect our giving to God?
If so, how? Why?
Does The Church suffer when the economy is bad? In what ways? Has it affected you and your church? If so, how?
When the economy is bad, what can we do to not let it affect our faith and giving to God?
What do you think?
Share your thoughts.
posted by preacherman @ 4:31:00 PM
81 Comments:
Good topic, as always.
I don't think the economy effects giving as much as FEARS about the economy.
A lot of folks were caught off guard and got in much more debt than they could handle...now they don't know what to do.
I think, too, that a lot of people don't realize that their giving makes a difference.
The church/kingdom of God is so much bigger than the economy.
I agree with Matt. However, I do believe that some of our kingdom kindred need to be reminded of this vital truth.
Blessings,
-bill
a spiritual oasis
Next month, my salary will be cut 15%. Will it affect my ability to give? Yes. Will I continue to give? Yes. But I cannot give what I don't have, and I will not have as much. God knows that I would like to give more than I earn.
No idea. It certainly gives us a chance to exercise our faith in giving. Also, thank you posting a comment on my blog. Very kind of you. Thank you for that!
By the way, how is your health? I noticed a post you made some time ago about having bad head aches and having a cat scan.
God bless you dear brother!
Great topic again Preacherman.
I think the economy does affect us as the Church because we do cut back on our giving. It affects missionaries and benevolence ministries the most.
Justin
I think a lot of concern about the economy stems from the fact so many people live in debt - or paycheck to paycheck. When talk of the economy is getting bad people who are in debt tend to freak out a little more because their faith has rested on their own ability to provide for themselves rather than God.
That leads me to say that I believe debt is a spiritual issue which affects our faith, which in turn affects the economy.
don't forget to ask about how the economy being good might affect our faith in a negative way.
there were some pretty poor churches in the Bible that accomplished much without a budget.
if our concept of church is how much we can spend on programs and activities, then, unfortunately, our church is tied to the economy.
I agree with Brain.
I think it is when the economy is good that people don't rely on God.
I don't know if it is true but I have always heard that bad economic times actually boost attendance at churches. Not sure that attendance really means that much in the long haul but I guess it means an opportunity to use what is on people's minds to reach out and help them.
I think it will affect my giving. I have to save money for gas, food, and other things that might happen during this hard time. I think the Church will suffer a little while the ecomony and U.S. dollar are not good.
I think we should just put our faith in God and continue to give what we have been; if not more.
As long as we are still giving, according to our abilities and what God has given us, that is what counts. God can do wonders with absolutely nothing, just look at 'creation.'
Good thoughts and responses on this one. I love the diversity of thought that you sometimes generate. Hope all is going well with you.
I don't mean to plug my own blog, but your questions deal directly with many of the things I have been dealing with on a regular basis lately. I recently wrote a post entitled "ten economic choices all Christians must consider" and I think I outlined some good ways that Christians can view the economy.
I like the diversity of thoughts and this discussion.
I appreciiate everyone's thoughts so far.
Coldfire,
Thanks for letting us know about your blog.
I appreciate it.
It will be benfital if everyone checked it out.
Again, thank you to everyone for this great discussion on this topic.
I check out coldfires blog and really like what he has to say. I think we just need to put our faith into practice and put God first. We need to give Him what he deserves.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
I believe in Karma.
Give and it will be given to you, right?
Hi, Preacherman. I agree with Matt. God is bigger than the economy. However, I have noticed that sometimes the economy does affect our members, who end up tempted to give less.
In smaller self-supporting congregations, this hurts because the preacher, if full-time, gets discouraged and might "accidentally" preach on giving (in the wrong spirit), and that can get out of control without prayer.
Preacherman,
Thank you so much for your kind words. I am glad you are encouraged by the things I write. You will be in my prayers.
I think fear affects our giving, and people are more fearful in a "bad" economy. I think if we consider the lilies and the sparrows and are honest about our excesses, our giving will remain proportionately consistent. We all have more than the widow who gave the "widow's mite". Fear sells news, so one thing I'm sure we won't be getting much of is good news. (Do not worry....)
This is a great topic. I think we need to look at this from two positions. The first is how does economics impact the church. The second should be how do Christians impact economics.
Let me give this some thought.
the economy?
ooooo, that can be a huge distraction, fer sure!
Ok...you got me all fired up. I posted on it, sorry I couldn't control myself
http://theupperroom.typepad.com/the_upper_room/2008/03/economics-and-t.html
Good question.
The less I have the less money I give. I know that many ministers tell us to give more so that we will have more but when you have to buy food and gas it's hard to give more.
I think God uses difficult times to build our character.
Also, I am reminded of this passage:
(Pro 30:7-9)
Two things I ask of you, O LORD; do not refuse me before I die: Keep falsehood and lies far from me; give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread. Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the LORD ?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God.
I believe that economy does effect us in everything in our lives. It affect our jobs, travel, going out to eat, shopping, prices on groceries. I also think it affect the Church as well because people are going to be more wise with there money. I think our giving should come from the heart. If we give less we should still give with all of our heart.
Preacherman,
Good topic and good discussion.
We live in a culture where each election cycle tells us it is the economy. The papers shout it everyday so I can’t imagine the idea of the economy not impacting believers. Maybe we actually connect the economy with God’s love for us as people. Surely God will give me enough to afford two cars, HDTV and a nice house in the suburbs.
I think all the talk about the economy keeps people from seeing that God’s focus wasn’t on the economy but on how we treat people. I can do that no matter how large the paycheck.
I know of churches that are just as extended as any individual.
This is something to think about. Thoughtful topic. I believe yes, it a way it is a test of our faith. Will we become scared and stop giving as much just in case.
Darin,
Good words. It is about the love of GOD. My wife was in Kenya a while back working in the slums. The churches there had nothing but showed such life and care for others.
A relevant topic and discussion.
I do think the economy affect our giving and churches budgets. It affects everyone and everything.
One thing that we sometimes forget is how the shifts in economy both here and abroad affect our missionaries. Their support tends to be stagnant even though local currencies are being devalued faster than we can imagine. Just a reminder for us to think globally and be sure to take care of our missionaries and their needs.
Arelene,
Great thought and point.
Thanks.
Everyone is doing a wonderful job in expressing their oppinions.
It is wonderful.
I know the economy has affect our church because most of the men are truck drivers. The gas for the trucks are so high and the amount of money they make now has affected our budget. We have even had to give assistance to many of the family in our church. Preacherman, what a good topic as always. I hope things get better soon. It would be nice of the economic stimulus checks went to the church or a majority of it anyway. I have a feeling though that they are going to hold on to them or spend them on themselves.
wow you have so many comments to your blog entries, I dont know if you will see little ol' me in here! I wanted to say thank you for the kind words on my blog, should have been here sooner but was busy with Resurrection Sunday! I had a part in a skit and now I am preparing to host and cook for a fundraising pancake breakfast for our crisis pregnancy center and my daughter is "creating" little nuggets of knowledge about the moon for a school science fair..............so I want to come back and visit your blog and read read read.....I will be back!
lill,
thank you for stopping by and encouraging me. I have added your blog to my favorites. I am humbled and honored that you will be back to read, read, read. I think it is wonderful. I hope to frequent your blog as well as time allows.
I pray God blessing on your life.
Zack,
Thanks for asking about my health. I still have been having migraines. I did go 5 days without having one. Then on Sunday night I got a migrain that lasted until this morning. I go back to the Nuerologist tomorrow. Please keep my family and I in your prayers. I apprecaite your concern.
Thanks. It mean so much brother!
Matt,
I really believe you have a great point. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us brother.
Bill,
I am glad you believe with Matt. I understand that we live in a "Kingdom" and that God's Kingdom is bigger than money but on earth the Kingdom needs money to print Bibles, material, pay missionaries, support orphan homes, continue to have strong benevolence ministries, and pay elders (if congregations do that) and pay ministers, and ministry staff. Bills to keep Church buildings open. Excellent thought brother. Keep up the great comments.
Terry,
Thank you brother for sharing your story with us all. It is so true and many Christians are going through the same thing as you are brother. You are not alone during this financial crunch.
Anonymous,
Yes a bad economy does affect missionaries as many churches have to cut support.
Zack,
Thanks again for your points and concerns for my health. I addressed it to you earlier.
I believe the economy affeccts every thing especially the Church. We can't help but affect it.
I believe we need to just put our faith in God and give what we have been giving. The economy will jump back soon enough. We just need to wait it out a while. Things will get better. I believe that they always do.
Thanks for the positive words Jammie. I do think we need to remember that the economy will get better. I think this might just be Lord willing (as my grandmother use to say) be for a short time. Hopefullly. Right?
I think that the person that said more people turn to church in hard times, is on the right track. I think we should get ready to show some Jesus love to people stepping through the door into the church, and because people in the community will have greater needs, those that are able should get ready to give more. I think it is an opportunity to reach out to the masses. I am sure that a poor economy does hurt the church, yet we have to look past what the world is telling us to kingdom issues. We are guilty of planning our future, along with future purchases, and I think we need to focus on present needs (not wants). Live today and let God worry about tomorrow for us. Hard to do! I do really think that every Christian should look at hard times as a joy. God is getting ready to unleash some of his good works in us, in our community, in our world. I have lived through quite a few storms and my God will get me through this one, and each storm brings greater faith, love and joy in the end, so I'll not second guess this one and I will give more. Only after a drought can we really appreciate the rain.
debbie,
Wonderful comments.
I believe you are right on the money.
I pray people will come to God during this difficult time.
We need to trust God today.
I think you put it so well.
Thank you for adding to this discussion.
Hard times brings the church together extending compassion to the world around us.
In Kenya there are churches in slums that have nothing, but the believers are reaching out to those outside of the building.
When we are weak we are strong.
Great point Mike.
Thanks for adding to the discussion and giving us a world perspective.
As a trucker I can definately feel the affects of this economy. It has affected what we spend and how much we give to the church too. I hope God understands. I hope the church understands.
Good questions. I think that my faith grows, or at least should grow, in times of need. It is more difficult to be desperate for God during times of plenty. I would like to be desperate for God and the body of Christ all the time, but I know that having too much often causes me to be more independent that I should be. It is false independence.
This issue will also affect some churches more/differently than others. Urban churches and/or churches with a large percentage of lower income families will feel the crunch of a down economy more than wealthier congregations. Wouldn't it be great to hear more stories about congregations supporting each other through difficult times? I also wonder what will happen when we can't afford our nice church buildings/facilities anymore? Will we become more like the first century churches who met in homes?
Something is troubling me. The issue does not seem to be the economy, but how we choose to spend.
Of course when we have less money there is less to spend...but, are we activie giviers now. Do we give so much now that a drop in the Dow inpacts us. I think not.
This is a good subject and it has me really looking at my life.
Preacherman,
I love reading all the comments on this topic. I am struggling right now because of how high the gas prices are in my town. It hurts me that I can't give to God as much as I have before.
I think that giving is at the core of the Christian faith. We shouldn't be changed by the economy... I mean our core shouldn't be changed.
Take care, Preacherman.
i do not know if the economy makes any difference in people's faith.
do you think that people's faith might make any differnce in the economy?
does the economy suffer when the church loses faith in God?
how many things suffer when our faith is weak?
does our giving affect our faith?
what does faith, the economy and giving have in common?
is giving to a church the only way of giving to God?
Trucker channel 8,
I am sorry that you have felt the affect of the economy through the high gas prices. Let me encourage you to let you know that God looks at the heart when we give. Keep giving and understand that God knows your heart and understands.
Cheryl,
I agree our faith should grow during times on need. I hope that this will be a time where people seek God in their lives. It would be a wonderful outcome from this bad economy. I want you to know I appreciate you adding wonderful thoughts to this discussion.
Liz,
I think the high gas prices has affected many people and I want you as well to know that God see's your heart when you give. He understands that you are giving what you can. Thank you for your comments. I apprecaite it a lot.
Josh,
Thanks brother for adding your two cents to this discussion. It means a lot to me that you have taken time to share your thoughts with us all. I always enjoy what you have to tell my readers brother. I appreciate you thoughts on this subject. God has given us so much we should desire to give back even when it is hard. He doesn't want us to stop completely, I believe he wants us to give what we can and maybe even sacrifice somethings in our lives in order to give back to His church. I pray that all is going well it your family.
Nancy,
Excellent questions about how the economy suffers when the church and our faith suffers. I like that spin. Thank you so much for adding to the discussion and looking at the topic in a different view. I always appreciate your thoughts.
I think we should trust in God and continue to give what we have given. God always provides for us no matter what our situations.
Great topic, and what a thread! (as usual!)
This is a heavy one for me, admittedly, as I was raised in a household in which money was talked about alot. I rebelled against that, swinging maybe from one extreme to another, and failing to learn what I could have and should have learned, though at least I maintained the strong work ethic I received there.
I think it's just a test of our faith, as has been said on the thread. If we're too dependent on the economy then maybe we're not dependent on God as we should be.
While American Christians may be richer in money and possessions than our counterparts elsewhere, I have to believe that many of them are richer in faith than we are, though as we see in Timothy, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Ted,
Wonderful comments on this topic.
I agree with what you are saying.
Thank you for adding to this discussion. I believe we should give because we as American's have been so blessed even when our economy is bad. Jesus does tell us "give and it will be given to you." I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us.
Thank you for your comment- I'll be back to read some more of your blog when things have settled down here. Your prayers are so very appreciated! :-)
Ted,
You raise a good point. It does bring me to ask the question, do economic good times create idolatry in the church.
When times are hard everyone is praying and seeking GOD. We support each other more and seem more dependant on the Lord. But when times are good we gather together, build economic projections on giving, and act based on those numbers. Yea, we toss up a few prayers, but by and large it is just a numbers game. I always remember being in one church that made ministry plans around the projected number of “giving units”. A giving unit was an employed person in the church. The Lord wasn’t in it. It was just like running a business budget.
Sure it affects us- in terms of funding for kingdom work.
Christians should give God the firstfruits, but sometimes during tougher economic times that seems more difficult.
Danny,
Is so right.
I totally agree with what he is saying.
I wish I would have come up with it.
I terms of gospel expansion the third world is growing the most. Interesting that in nations stricken with poverty are seeing the biggest growth in believers.
Just gets me thinking thats all.
Mike,
Amen brother!
You are so right.
Danny,
I want to thank you brother for your thoughts and adding to the discussion.
I hope and pray that every Christian will trust that God will provide for their every need in life. I hope people will continue to give what they have been giving to God if not more especially during this tough economy.
Greetings in the name of Christ our Lord and Savior,
I came by way of Matt's "Kingdom Living" blog. I don't usually leave comments, but made an exception this time.
I dought you will remember me, but we went to church at Woodlawn together. My name is Stephen Valentine son of Steve and Jan. It just hit me how many years ago that was.
It is so exciting to see the great work God is doing through you. May God continue to bless you, your family and the ministry you have set your heart to.
Unlike most prophets (ministers), you get honor from this hometown boy. Your doing great.
As far as the post topic goes, it brings back a time when my father sat me down on the back steps of our loaned house on Lilius street in North Abilene. He had gone several months without a job and most of the things we had were given to us by church family, including the house to live in, groceries to eat, and shoes to wear. After a long day going place to place looking for a job, he came home tired and down. Sitting there on the back steps he reached into his pocket and pulled out thirty-five cents. Showing it to me he said son I left this morning with only thirty-five cents to my name and returned with the same amount still in my pocket. But as i walked in the door your mother took me to the fridge and showed me the abundant food that had been brought by while we were gone. As I stood there looking at the food that would feed my family of five I noticed the lights and water were still on to the house. It was then that I realized God does keep his promises.
The widow was able to give all she had because she had faith in a God that keeps his promises. No matter the economic situation, we must keep our faith in the One that keeps His promises. Because if it's not the economy today it could be unemployment tomorrow or surgery or cancer.
Many have given great comments and shown their hearts are set to trust in God and give to His will. I encourage all to continue trusting God, he keeps his promises.
Matthew 6:25-34 It takes faith not to worry about money; I struggle with it daily.
Kinney keep up the great work and tell your family we send them our prayers.
In Christ; peace and love.
Very relevant topic. The teaching of Jesus draws a relationship between the pocketbook and the heart. Sure the economy tests our heart in many ways. But our heart can also respond in ways during economic struggles that glorifies God and in time brings showers of blessing from God.
Bryan
bryanbuttram.wordpress.com
Steve V
That's it. It is all about GOD and his faithfulness and not about the economy.
We can get so caught up in what man is doing. We are not dependant on the provision of man but the Grace of GOD.
The markets may rise and fall but GOD does not change.
Steve V.
It is great hearing from you brother. It has been a long time. I will let my family know you are praying. I apprecaite the prayers brother as I recover from GBS.
I also appreciate you adding to the discussion. I want you to know you are always welcome here at that this blog brother.
___________________________________
dbbajance,
I agree it is about glorifying God. I always appreciate your thoughts and adding to the discussion.
___________________________________
Mike,
Brother you are always right on.
I believe we must strive to keep the right heart in all things especially our giving to God during difficult times. Mike thank you brohter for adding your thought to this discussion. I appreciate it a lot.
If we are focused on how little we have, that's exactly what we'll see - little, but if we're focused on our abundance, we'll notice how our "oil jar never goes empty" and the master gives enough "loaves and fishes" to supply all of our needs and then some.
I am considered a poor person by wordly standards, but I never feel poor because I am not focused on it, but rather what I can do with what I have.
If the Master choses to give me little, I'll do what I can with it to increase it. If he choses to give me more, I'll do the same and still feel the same abundance that I do now becuase wealth is just a tool.
I am a full-time commuter student, full time mother and full time Christian who always seems to have just what I need at just the right time. I give it to Him and he does the rest without fail.
I want to thank everyone for their comments and adding thoughts to this discussion that I know affect many Christians and churches.
Hey preacherman, I see you've got quite a discussion going on here. Well I think what happens in economy will impact, we're still living in this world, but what I'd wonder about is, will a negative impact on things around us have a negative impact on our spiritual lives?
take care
God Bless
Godheart,
I hope not.
I hope that we as Christians understand that we are a part of God's Kingdom now. I hope we will understand despite how bad things might seem in the world God is bigger than any problem. I hope and pray that as believers we will continue to put our trust and faith in God and see that he is a loving Father who provides for us especailly when we give in difficult times. Thank you so much for you point and adding your thoughts to this discussion!
I want to thank everyone who commented and added to this important discussion. It is my prayer that we will not let a bad economy determine what we give to GOd and that as believers we will give to God from our hearts.
i think that God can work with what ever "is" given...but, the point is that God would like for us to continue to be giving of whatever He gives to us.
You are so right Nancy.
Thanks for your comments!
I do think the economy is going to affect us whether we are republic, democrat, socialist, green party. It affects everyone. As a Christian I try to give as much as I can see that it will affect the church in a major way as we see gas prices go up, and everything else as well. We are in a recession.
I think when people get their money from the government they are going to hold on to it or use it for gas. There may be cut backs in budgets at church because of what is going on in America. $4.00 for diesel.
The economy is bad but should give despite what is happening.
I have increase my giving since the bad economy. I travel less and save groceries. God must be first and have our first.
By not giving we are putting our faith in ourselves. Living by what we see.
The word of God says the righteous will live by faith.
without faith it is impossible to please him;
Feed your faith... turn off your TV and all the sources that only put fear and worry in you.
Fear is a tool of the devil..
Feed your faith and starve your doubts.
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