preacherman

Monday, October 09, 2006

The Disputable Matters

Disputable matters. Non-essentials. Matters of opinion.

Yesterday, I preached on Romans 14. I preached on how each one of us has different opinions and it is okay for us to have different opinions about the non-essentials. On the essentials I believe there must be unity but on the non-essentials we are going to have different opinions and views. Paul mentions in Romans 14 that our love for one another is greater than our liberty that we have in Christ. I believe Romans 14 has been a passage for legalists to have things their way, to demand that other Christians can't do certain things because it is offensive. What we miss is that the passage is talking about the young weaker Christian who is new in the faith, it is not taking about mature Christians who want thing their way. I believe that the younger, weaker, new convert is teachable and we should do all in our power to disciple, things that are going to build up and make them stronger. Understanding that our love for them is greater than what I want to do or think or feel. But we can't let those who are mature Christians who want to rob us our freedom and joy in Christ do it. Even Paul opposed Peter about what he was doing in Galatians 2. Paul basically says, "Peter is that ham on your breath...What are you doing? Are you going back to your legalistic ways?" Don't you know that it is no long about the law but Christ. Peter, I have been crucified with Christ, I no longer live but Christ lives in me and the I live I live for Christ and not the law."

I have come to understand that in ministry you can not offend others. Christians can't live their lives trying not to offend everyone. Jesus was the son of God and he couldn't even not go and speak and do without offending.

Christianity isn't a list of do's and dont's. It is about a relationship with God and His son Jesus Christ. I know in our town there is a group of people who don't cuss, get drunk, lie, cheat, steal, kill, gossip and don't do a lot of things. They are in the Rocksprings cemetery. Jesus has come to give us life and life abundant.

I love how Paul tells us not to judge each other over the non-essentials. Some people think it is okay to do this and some don't. Both do so to the Lord. At the end of the chapter he tells us it is Between you and God. Isn't that wonderful?

How many Christians don't have a Spirit of love when it comes the to the disputable matters? How many Christians fuss and fight over the disputable matters? How many churches have split over disputable matters? How many Christians try to rob other Christians of the freedom that they have in Christ? How have you seen your freedom in Christ tried to be stripped over something that was a matter of an opinion? Have you seen preacher mis-represent this passages as far as we can't offend anyone? How does it effect ones life in Christ when we live trying not to offend anyone? What does Jesus teach us about offending? Did the pharasee's try to rob Jesus, his disciples of the joy by their list of does and dont's ? How are you enjoying your freedom in Christ? How would you respond to another brother or sister who wasn't a new convert but a pharasee trying to control how you felt about matter between you and God?
What do you think?
Share your thoughts.

51 Comments:

Blogger Velcro said...

Great Post.

It saddens me to think about how many divisions in the church have come from the "Non-Essentials".

12:24 PM  
Blogger L.E.Meredith said...

Good post shows greater maturity than some much older. God bless

3:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good post and some really good questions.
I don't know anything because all I have are questions.

How do we determine what is disputable or non-essential or opinion?

What if the pharisee is also a young convert?

What if the pharisee is really just a weak brother/sister who has been in the church for a really long time?

Should we just turn all mature Christians who don't believe everything we do over to Satan?

Can brethren who don't agree with us really be considered mature?

How can we oppose someone without being judgmental?

That's why I just leave everybody alone and let them believe whatever they want to believe. I think that is what Jesus would do.

-anon-

3:04 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

The Prophet,
How true. Thanks for your comments.

L.E.,
Thank you for you comments and enjoyin the post.

Anonymous,
Great questions.
The essentials is what God clearly states in the word of God. We know God clear states this is right this is wrong. The non-essentials would be things that are matters of personal conviction. Opinion. Doesn't effect someones salvation. Gives the Christian freedom to do if he feels that is conscience it is okay to do. Paul mentions food,drink, and holidays.

I believe Romans 14 is talking about new converts. The difference between the younger weaker brother or sister is that they are teachable. The pharasee's or legalists just as in Jesus's time are not teachable. Set in their own ways. Not willing to change. So an older, mature Christian, somone who has been a Christian for twenty, thirty, forthy, fifty years would not fall into the weaker catagory; in that they should move on towards maturity.

The way to handle the mature brother or sister who disagree's over matters of opinion is to love them. Respect their opinion but not let their opinions rob you of the freedom that you have in Christ. Remembering as Paul says, it is a matte between you and God. We should not judge each other on matters of opinion or non-essentials of faith. We must always strive to have the spirit of Christ.

I believe that Chrisitans can disagree and still be mature. We aren't going to have the same belief's or opinions on everything when it comes to the things that don't matter. It is like a family. Mom, dad, brothers, sister all have different gifts, talents, beliefs, but as a family we are unified on the things that matter...the things we clearly know what we should and shouldn't do, love, forgiveness, how we treat one another.

I hope this clears somethings up for you. There are some Christians who love to rob, control, munipulate other Christians into thinking if you don't agree with me then your going to hell, your wrong, your .... Ch.14:10-13 "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we all stand before God's judgement seat. It is written: "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confress to God." so then, each of us will give an account to himself to God. Therefore, let us stop passing judgement on one another." It isn't our place to judge. I am glad God is the one who judges.
Love and right attitude is a must. Love should be above liberty.

As far as liberty and our freedom on the non-essentials or disputable matters, we must ask ourselves a few questions:

1.What does the Bible say? I can think, feel, want but it matters what God says.
2.Can I thank God for it? Can you honestly with a clear conscience say, "God, I ask you to bless this that I'm about to do and that I thank you for it."
3.If Jesus returned, would I be ashamed? 1 John 2:28 tells us, "Now little children abide in Him" that is in Jesus "So you may have confidence before him and not be ashamed at his coming." Is what you are doing or about to do something that you would be ashamed of if Jesus returned.
4. Would it make a wearker Christian stumble?
5. When in doubt, don't. Vs. 23 says we shouldn't doubt because the man who has doubts is condemned. If you go against your conscience, the bible says your sinning. So when in doubt, don't.

I hope this helps -anon-

4:08 PM  
Blogger Shump said...

Thanks for your comments on my blog. I am with you on the republican thing. I can't stand people who think Jesus is a republican, and anyone who loves Jesus would be one also.
I think if your faith lines up perfectly with one party or the other, you have the wrong faith.
I was really frustrated with how people stopped discussing the point and started talking about how the points were made. If you are going to debate, or go to church, or live a half way normal life, we have to enter into all our relationships with our "big boy pants" on and be able handle a little satire or sarcasim from people who disagree. Maybe that is sad, but it's life.
Keep Blogging
Brad

4:26 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Brad,
Thanks for your comments.
It not just the rublican thing...I believe that you their are godly people who are republcan, democrat, independant, and hold countless other views. I believe that politics, hoildays, and countless other things than you can imagine would fall into the catagories of disputable matters or matters of opinion. Where does it say in the Bible that I have to have certain political views or can't take my kids trick or treating or any number of things that are matters of opinion and personal conviction. Even when it comes to politics we need to understand that there are going to differing opinions and views. Just like the meat or holidays that Paul talks about we need to not judge. We need to say okay a person's faith always him or her to do this or that. And above all things again have love.
Great point.
Thanks for stopping by and again love for you add to the discussion anytime.

5:27 PM  
Blogger Velcro said...

Anon,

God bless you for your questions. I wish I were humble enough to have more questions than answers.

5:59 PM  
Blogger Brian Nicklaus said...

Anonymous hit the nail on the head. We ALL agree that we shouldn't divide or mistreat each other over disputable/non-essential matters.

Who gets to decide which ones they are?
And how do we go about teaching the weak faith the way more accurately?

Rom 14 (I am teaching it now in a Bible Class) is so tough to live and apply.

Is Paul really saying that if you think someone is doing something wrong, you shouldn't say anything about it? That seems to go against other passages.

The passage can be abused and used for individualism (which I hope is not the case for "anon"), instead it is stressing loving submission to others.

8:19 PM  
Blogger "George" said...

How amazing that people can take exactly what Paul was writing and turn it around to justify just the opposite of what he meant! Legalists can do anything they want, though, right? Of course--it's everyone else who's wrong!

8:50 AM  
Anonymous David said...

I believe Romans 14 is a wonderful chapter on the freedom that I have in Christ. I can do what my conscience thinks okay and it is something between me and God. Christians can't live their lives fearful of offending everyone. We must live free and enjoy what God has given to us. It is wonderful that I can say thank you God that I can enjoy this movie, this holiday, the food, wine, etc. I know as a Christian that their are some who are going to hate what I do. Does that mean that I am wrong? Does it mean that they are wrong? Paul says no. It is between God and me and them and God.
Thank you preacherman for getting us to think about things that really matter when it comes to matters of opinion.

2:57 PM  
Anonymous Dan said...

I believe it is up to God and his word to say what is essential. God's word does tell us what is right and what is wrong. And then as in Romans 14 their are matters of opinion. The Bible doesn't talk about watching movies, smoking, dipping, how to vote, celebrating Christmas, Easter, wearing hats in worship, what time to worship, to have fellowship hall or not, or small groups or not, or like preacherman said, you can go on and on, on what isn't mentioned in the Bible that are matters of opinion. Are we going to live our lives in fear of offending? Are we going to let legalism rob us of what we have in Christ? Or are we going to enjoy the freedom we have and thank God for it?
I believe if a brother is sinning which the Bible makes clear what sin is we should let them know what is right and do it in a loving way. But when it comes to opinions and personal convictions we should keep ourselves from judging others. It isn't our job especially when it comes to the matters of opinion and personal conviction.

I want to thank you preacherman for your blog and dealing with subjects that are too controversial for some blogs. For allowing others to share how they think and feel about those subjects in a non-threatening way. I feel like on some blogs you get attacked if you don't agree with everyone. I feel on your blog I can dis-agree or agree and it is okay.

Shalom
Dan

3:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Preacherman,
Great post.
And right on George!

3:13 PM  
Blogger Brian Nicklaus said...

We must be careful not to confuse "rights" that we as americans are so obsessed with, and Christian Freedom. As Christians, we are slaves to Christ and often must give up our rights out of love to others.

You can debate instrumental music all day long, but if the brethren a hundred years ago in Restoration Churches had cared more about their brothers and sisters whose consciences were offended by the piano than their assumed right to use it, maybe we wouldn't be 3+ groups today.

True, the context in Romans 14 is about something seeing you do something, and doing it even though they think it is wrong. But when we do things, expressing our freedoms in Christ that we know will hurt our brothers and sisters, we are not acting in love.

Of course, there are lines, how much do we give in, etc? Galatians is about drawing lines and not giving in when it comes to salvation, but most of us are still worldly enough and american enough, that we want to do what we want to do and if it bothers someone, tough.

4:33 PM  
Blogger Brian Nicklaus said...

I am not sure if "george" was agreeing or disagreeing, or even responding to my post. but I totally agree with him, and I think we said the same thing

4:38 PM  
Blogger Darin L. Hamm said...

Preacherman,

The bugaboo of what is opinion to one is essential to another and how do we decide? It is a good question and one that always follows a discussion of Romans 14. We all have a dividing line, a way of doing things that will push beyond our comfort zone. What will we do when that moment comes?

How do we in such an individualistic culture deal with this passage written to people who lived with a community mindset? How do we view this passage that was written to a culture steeped in honor and shame when we live in one that feels no shame?

I have many thoughts on this one Preacherman. Thanks for asking. Hope you don’t mind if I take them to my blog.

6:44 PM  
Anonymous Justin said...

Preacherman,

I too believe we must go to what God has to say on what is right and what is wrong. It is not hard to see the thou shall and thou shall not's. And I think for many Christians they have been slaves either to legalism or to thier own churches thoughts on freedom in Christ that they are afraid to enjoy the life that Christ has given. I am glad I have the right to do this or that in matters of opinion or personal conviction. I am glad that God is the one who I will stand before and will judge my heart.
You are so right on how on matters of opinion and personal convictions that it isn't our place to judge. Is it really that hard for Christians to see what is and is not essential and matters of opinion? Come on. Or is it a fear of not wanting to be wrong or to offend or not understanding the freedom in Christ?
Thanks for your post. I am going to be checking in on Darin's blog. He makes some good points and want to see what he thinks.
I hope that as Christians we won't be afraid to live and enjoy the Christian life. I hope that those who have been pressed down by legalism will understand and not be afraid to see experience the freedom that they have in Christ.

7:34 PM  
Blogger Falantedios said...

Anything we say about Christian freedom MUST be reconciled with Romans 6:16-19.

"Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that you, having once been slaves of sin, have become obedient from the heart to the form of teaching to which you were entrusted, and that you, having been set free from sin, have become SLAVES OF RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Also, in Rom 14, Paul links the ending of judgment with submission! We are not to pass judgment on our brethen, and we are to submit to their weakness by not placing anything that will make them stumble before them.

"I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean."

in HIS love,
Nick

8:26 PM  
Anonymous David said...

Nick,
Do you think people abuse this passage to try to rob Christians of their freedom by saying I am offended submit to me and what I want? Can Christians be slaves of righteousness without having to submit to everyone? Can you submit to everyone? Can we please everyone? Do we as Christians have to walk on egg shells? What does that do to our Christian life and the freedom that we have? Just some questions that I had from your comments. I appreciate your point of view and understand that as a Christian I am a slave no longer to sin, that wouldn't be a personal opinion or conviciton. I understand that I am a slave to rightouesness. A slave to Christ. I am just tired of Christians thinking that they can control and abuse other Christians by saying "I'm weak, I'm offened". What do you think?

9:02 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Darin,
Love for you to share your thoughts on your blog.

12:16 AM  
Blogger preacherman said...

The questions I have been thinking about during this discussion is:

Is it really hard for us as Christians to define what is the essentials? Or are we afraid of what others think of us? Are we afraid of what mom and dad might think, preacher might think? Afraid of being confronted? Do we lack confidene in saying this is essential this is non-essentials?
What do you think?

8:03 AM  
Blogger john alan turner said...

Question: Is this a post about personal responsibility or about how open our fellowship should be?

10:28 AM  
Blogger Chris Field said...

The essentials in my book? Quite simple.

Jesus as son came from God the father in Heaven to show us how to be human and live by the spirit. Anyone seeking him wholly will saved.

That's it for me. Everything else is just extra.

Thanks for your kind words and prayers, preacherman. I appreciate it.

10:29 AM  
Blogger Falantedios said...

Definitely, we fear hurting or crossing those around us, for different reasons.

Let's say we're talking to an 85 or 90 year old couple, who've been dedicated to the Lord's church their entire adult lives. They haven't had the benefit of our theological education, because they've spent their lives raising their families, working to support those families, the local assembly, mission efforts. When we seek to convince them that nothing is essential except "Jesus the son came down from God the father in heaven to show us how to be human and live by the spirit," all their joy and peace is going to be shattered.

A different concern raises its head when we are worried about crossing the local ecclesiastical hierarchy. Will we be disfellowshipped? Will we be marked as a false teacher? Will we lose our position?

Do Christians abuse this passage? Absolutely.

Can Christians be slaves of righteousness without having to submit to everyone? I don't know. Submission to one another is a huge Scriptural theme. Paul basically says in 1 Cor 6:7-8 that it is better to let ourselves be cheated financially than to seek our own way. And what about his words to the Philippians? "Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others."

And to the Ephesians: "Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ."

And to the Colossians: "Bear with one another and, if anyone has a complaint against another, forgive each other; just as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony."

We're not here to serve ourselves. We don't need to do things however we want to do them. We have enough private time between us and God for that.

Isn't part of our problem that we seek the approval of the assembly for whatever it is that we desire to do, when our approval should be sought from the Lord?

Other Christians might have the illusion of controlling me, abusing me, but hey, the Romans had the illusion that they were controlling Jesus... that they were abusing Jesus and shaming him. But they were not in control. The Father was always in control. And NO ONE can force me to give that up. I can submit to anyone, knowing that my Father is in control.

I believe that a lot of these non-essentials issues would become clearer if the church could muster the courage to cut loose the anchor and BE sojourners, aliens and pilgrims in the world. But when we believe that a community cannot be evangelized effectively without first constructing a church building... when our efforts strive so powerfully to attain the world's approval... when in a world that we KNOW is passing away we strive to show an illusion of permanence...

Sorry for the rant. I just think we have things backwards sometimes, and a minimalist approach to the essentials will not solve anything. Neither will an external approach. But we must reconcile our understanding of the essentials with the fact that the NT record states that some externals ARE essentials.

in HIS love,
Nick

12:03 PM  
Blogger Ancient Wanderer said...

Question:
As someone who is in an absolute covenant relationship with God [about here Paul would talk about our immersion into Christ] in-other-words a Christian, do we ever have personal or non-essential matters in our lives?

AW

1:57 PM  
Anonymous David said...

Nick,

I want to thank you for answering the questions that I had. You mad some really good points.

David

3:21 PM  
Blogger Milly said...

Preacherman,
Thanks for invite over to visit. Good post sir.

7:58 PM  
Blogger Falantedios said...

Sure we do, AW.
Do I serve chicken or pork for dinner?
Do I play Uno or Monopoly with the kids tonight?
Do I wash the car tomorrow or mow the grass?

I think I understand part of what you're asking. No, there should never be a part of our lives that God should not be invited into. But, there are things we are expected to be able to do without asking permission or checking the rulebook. We are expected to grow up to be MATURE children of God.

in HIS love,
Nick

12:16 AM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Nick,

Excellently put.
I agree as well that God should be apart of our lives in everyway and in everything but yes, there are things that we don't have to ask permission. I know for me my kids don't have to ask permission all the time about things that I don't care about. I give them the freedom to make choices. I give them space. I let them be children. I believe that is how GOd is with us as his children as well. There are things we don't have to ask permission in order to do.

11:24 AM  
Blogger Larry said...

Essentials and non-essentials have a tendency to be interpreted and categorized to fit a persons specific mindset; usually based on their church background and preferences.

Determining what is essential is often difficult, and varies from person to person. Not that there are no essentials, but complete agreement on what is essential will never happen.

12:35 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Thanks Larry.
I appreciate you adding to the discussion.

12:41 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

I am going to try to live the best life I know how to live and if I offend someone I undersand that God understands. I think that is all I need to know for myself.

4:15 PM  
Blogger Royce Ogle said...

One of the reasons there is so much discussion, questions, and concern about the "essentials" is simply this.

Our churches have preached a works based salvation for so long that now there is a new sin lurking around every corner that waits to cause you to loose your salvation.

I can think of a dozen things people can do inside "the building" that can cause them to loose their salvation, so, they become "essentials".

Many of these "essentials" are nothing more than some preacher or elder damanding that everyone under his influence only practice, think, and believe what he approves, without regard to what the Bible says or does not say.

Most of the things that are so important they cause brothers not to speak to each other are not Bible mandates, or even Biblical principals, they are petty issues used by spiritually immature men to try to force people to conform to their wishes.

"Him who is weak in the faith receive, but not to doubtful disputes". I will bend over backwards to accomidate a weak brother, but when they get ugly and threaten disfellowship, start slandering brothers, and are downright mean, I'm done.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

10:17 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Royce,

Great point.
I think you are so right in that elders or preachers demand that people do it their way no matter what the Bible has to say about it.
I have seen that done in some of the churches I have worked for in the past among elders who didn't have the spirit. Thank you for your comments and adding to this discussion.

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Anonymous Zack said...

We can teach the truth, and sometimes it will offend people. "Reprove, rebuke, exhort" pretty much guarantees that people will be offended. We can even partake of the things we don't condemn ourselves for as long as we don't cause others to stumble. But no, we can't force our "disputable" worship activities onto the entire assembly because we feel that we have freedom in some regard. Those who do so are puffed up with knowledge, but lacking in love.

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