preacherman

Tuesday, September 12, 2006

My People Are Destroyed From Lack Of Knowledge

I remember growing up people understood that the Church of Christ really knew the word. If someone had a question regaurding scripture you a could ask someone who was Chruch of Christ and they knew book, chapter and verse. Do we have that knowledge still? Do we know the word they way we should anymore? Hosea 4:6 tells us "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge." We hear in the saying "Ignorance is bliss." Is it really? Do we read the Bible like we should? Are we too busy? Do we read more Max Lucado, Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, and others than we do the Word of God? How does lack of knowledge lead to problems in peoples lives, families, church, church leadership and a nation? Should we be stressing the importance of reading God's word more? Why is bible reading and study so important? How does it help our personally knowing who God is and wants?
Let me know what you think.

47 Comments:

Blogger Royce Ogle said...

There is no substitute for the word of God. Reading "about" it is not nearly as important as reading "it".

The 3 authors you mentioned are good men but to me their theology has lace sewn on the hem.

I suppose I prefer meat to quich, thats all.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

12:42 PM  
Anonymous Bill said...

Great Post.
I do think God's word is the meat but I know alot of Christian friends who read more Lucado, Osteen and Purpose Driven Life than the Word of Life. I have taught class and ask those friends to turn to Hebrews and they were searching the Old Testament. I do think that alot of Christians are lacking the hunger for God's word. Instead they are eating the junk food instead of meat.

1:43 PM  
Blogger Ancient Wanderer said...

I agree that we have a dearth of Bible knowledge in the church but it isn't a new phenom. For at least three generations we have relied on the reputation of our "fathers".

Why? There are a number of possible factors (education, society, culture) but:

the degradation of the inspiration and authority of God's Word is #1.

our focus on "what's wrong with others in the church" rather than self examination is #2.

#1 made us loose our authority
#2 made us self righteous in that loss

just my opinion
AW

2:15 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

Forgive me if I'm off base... an honest question, not pointing blame...

A generation ago was there more instruction in the homes as far as the Word of God is concerned? Now it seems to me that most if not all of the instruction is left to the church, maybe it's always been that way.

Your post made me think, b/c I have two young children and I believe ultimately my wife and I are responsible for teaching our children, and I love the help that we recieve from the church.

When I ask some of our 40 something folks how they know what they know, they rarely say the church taught them, but say "oh, my mom read me the stories," or "my dad taught me that."

I grew up in a home where my mom and I were the only Christians. We didn't study in the home, b/c it wasn't really allowed. I learned from my mother's example and what I learned at church.

Thanks for making me think.

2:27 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Royce, I totally agree I rather have the meat. I am not saying that reading others is a bad thing it is just what are we reading more of, what are we living by, and putting into practice. The Word of God should be first in the Christians life.

Bill, thanks for you comments. I agree the word of Life is what gives us the nurishment we need in life. Alot of Christian book out there are junk food and full of spiritual fluff that sounds great. The feast we eat and that should fill us is the meat of God's word.

AW,

Excellent thoughts.
How true.
Many christians use the word of God to expose others or make their point of views known. Instead there must be self-examination. Self-examination is first. I look at the word and say what do I need to change. How can I be more like my heavenly Father. What does God want from my life. What does God say about this subject.

Steve,

Thank you for stopping by my blog. I appreciate your comments anytime.
I agree that we have failed maybe over the years in putting Duet 6 into practice. It should start at home. Mom and Dad's need to teach their children the word of God and when that happens familis are stronger, church is stronger and the nation is stronger.
I know that as a youth minister and now preacherI have seen a lack of that on the part of mom and dad and leaving it up to the youth minister or the preacher to explain the word of God.
We need to stress to our people, our families the importants of family Bible studies. Churches need to have the "As for me and my house attitude."

Steve excellent comments.

2:43 PM  
Blogger L.E.Meredith said...

Reading the bible is the only place where we can learn about and get to know GOD. When we depend on other's books we only get other's opinions.

3:47 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

L.E.
I totally agree.
Thank you for you comments as always.

5:20 PM  
Anonymous David said...

Preacherman,

Your steppin on my toes.
I am guilty of reading alot of others books more than the Bible.
I find it easier than the Bible. The Bible seems so deep and boring alot of times. Yet I can pick up a new Christain living book and it graps me.
I am going try hard to read the Word of God.
I need to make the time and hunger after it more than the other books. But How?

5:25 PM  
Blogger Wade Tannehill said...

In response to David's question there are actually a coule of books outside the Bible that have helped me to hunger for the Bible more. They are both by Douglas Stuart and Gordon Fee. One is called "How to Read the Bible for All it's Worth" and the other is "How to Read the Bible Book by Book." The first is an introduction to the various literary genres of the Bible (a chapter on prophecy, a chapter on Epistles, a chapter on Psalms, etc.) and the other has one chapter on each of the 66 books of the Bible introducing the reader to what is going in in each of these books. While they are both highly readable, the second one is even more so. I consider these two books the best I've seen on helping the Bible come alive as something other than an obscure and archaic book. These are great companions to the Scripture. A good way to use them is, for example, to read a chapter on the Gospels in the first book and then the chapter on Matthew in the second before reading Matthew. Then Matthew will come alive. These books are probably readily available on either Amazon or Christianbook.com

8:08 PM  
Blogger Mike Exum said...

I suspect, though I have not exegeted it, that when Hosea speaks of "knowledge" in 4:6, that it comes nearer to sexual knowledge than book learning.

You "know"... like Adam "knew" Eve.

Israel is like an unfaithful wife, a whore that runs around on her husband, see 4:1. It is a broken "trust".

In our Enlightenment mind-set, we often think of knowledge as an objective grasping of facts etc... however, truth is way more relative than that. We must love what we know and know what we love. Knowing God is a relational relationship thing. It is not a recital of verses, though that may play a part.

Many blessings...

Feel free to chew me up boys!

9:00 PM  
Blogger Ancient Wanderer said...

Mike,
'reciting verses' as a definition of "knowledge" is a bit of a straw man argument. The only way to have a deeper relationship with any one is to 'know' as much about them as possible. Familiarity breeds understanding, understanding breeds acceptance, acceptance breeds relationship.

It kinda (just superficially kinda) sounds good to say that truth is relative but actually it ultimately makes the Bible irrelevant and when our only source for truly knowing God becomes irrelevant then our relationship with God becomes impossible.

I like that whole whore analogy. If you spend more time whoring around than getting to know (not just sex) your wife then I can say your relationship with your wife will not be strong...the whore will become your confidant and your true partner and you will never have a real relationship with your wife. But I agree you will have a relative relationship with her.

If I spend my time whoring around with truth then truth will not become my real partner in my relationship with God and so I won't have real relationship with Him but only a prostituted understanding.

HOW IS TRUTH RELATIVE? un-enlighten us :)

AW

8:36 AM  
Anonymous David said...

Thanks Wade. I will get a copy of both books and start reading them. I appreciate your willingness to help.

11:27 AM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Wade,
Thank you for stopping by and posting your thoughts and helping David. Both of those books have been a blessing more me in knowin how to read and study the Bible for all its worth.
Thanks Wade.

David,
I hope you find both of those book's helpful.

Mike,
Thanks for your comments.
I think the problem with most people in the world today is that they base to much on feelings instead of really knowing God. You hear people say, "I feel that God doesn't mind if I...Or I feel that a loving God would never..." That is the mentality of the world today. Even the comittments that we make today are based on feelings. I was at a wedding and heard the vows changed from until death do us part was until our love ends. In order to really know "personally" know God we must not rely on feeling only but get back into the book. I want to know what God him personally...I want to know what he traits, character, his will and desire for me and I believe that starts with the diving into the Bible. Reading it. Studying it. Memorizing it. Meditating on it.
Thanks Mike for you comments and adding to the discussion.

AW,
Excellently put.
In a world of no absolutes and everything relative we must understand and teach that God word is truth. It is sold. It is never changing. What hope. How wonderful it is that we can put our trust in Him unchanging word.
Thank you for your thoughts.

11:39 AM  
Blogger Velcro said...

Preacher,

I definitely agree with you. People I know seem to read more from Christian authors than they do from the Word of God.

I think one big problem facing the church and Christians is that in most large churches that you visit the Scripture used is shown on the big screen via PowerPoint or some other computer program. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but I think it discourages Christians from bringing their Bibles with them to church.

Good Post.

12:04 PM  
Anonymous Jen said...

Great post.
You make me want to read my Bible more.

12:40 PM  
Blogger Royce Ogle said...

I fear that I might be misunderstood based on my first comment.

Let me clarify. I read books my many authors. You can learn from a book just as you can learn from a preacher or teacher. The difference being written vs spoken.

I love Osteen, Lucado, and Warren. Each of them is a good man and each has made great contributions to the cause of Christ. I just prefer more weighty writing than what they produce. I don't read many devotional, or narrative, type books.

I will single Lucado out because he is coC and most readers of this blog are too. Bro' Max is a sort of pioneer for the message of grace in our movement. Not "the" pioneeer, but "a" pioneer. I am thankful for his work in that regard. He exhaults Christ in his life and ministry. He has done an amazing job in the church in San Antonio. With that backdrop in mind, his books bore me to tears. Its like theology produced by the Lifetime Channel. I may be way out on a limb here, but I'll bet you a cup of java most of Lucado's readers are women. There is absolutely nothing wrong about his written ministry, it just has no appeal to me.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

12:55 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Josh,
I totally agree.
It is easy for Christians not to bring their Bibles to church when it is shot up on the screen or printed in the bulletin.
Look around most churches today and you will see something missing in their hand and that is the Word of God.
Thanks for your comments as always.

2:15 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Royce.
I understood what you were saying.
I read many author too, the ones I mentioned, and many, many of them are encouraging. I'm not saying not to read others writtings. I enjoy reading. I am currently reading Bobby Valentines book "Kingdom Come" right now and think it is great. But first in foremost in our readings should be the Word of God.

The women readers you understand what he his saying about Max's books right? Suring you don't like reading N.T. Wright do you ladies. :-)

As a minister it is easy to read more commentaries then text. It is easy to read more stories of application then text. We must understand the text is the most important thing and should be reading it the most.

Royce, thanks for your comments.

2:22 PM  
Anonymous Dan said...

Preacherman,

As a minister I find myself spending alot of time in study for presentations and lack the real study I should be doing for me.
I agree that we should be stressing to our families to teach Jesus at home. We neglect family devotional times. Families get so busy but yet we must make time for God and his word.

I enjoyed reading the books that Wade mentioned. My favorite of the two is "How To Read The Bible For All Its Worth". God bless Stuart and Fee for writting those to masterpieces.

I also enjoyed your post on the RM. One book aside from God's word that made a difference in my life and ministry was Tim's book.

2:54 PM  
Blogger Wade Tannehill said...

Josh and Preacherman,

I use Powerpoint in my preaching and so do a lot of my friends. Comparing notes with many of those friends, we all shared your concern at first that this may discourage people from bringing their Bibles to church. At first, I even refused to project Scriptures on the screen.

But guess what these friends and I have unanimously found to be the case? Those who did not bring their Bibles to church still don't. And those who did bring their Bibles to church still do--and even look up the Scriptures. Powerpoint hasn't changed a thing.

So I find that projecting the Scriptures is a very good thing, because those who don't bring their Bibles will at least read those Scriptures on the screen and perhaps an interest will be formed. It also forces readers of archaic translations to see the text in a more contemporary vernacular, which I think they desparately need.

5:07 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Wade,

Thanks for you comments.
As you know I am not against powerpoint during church. It can have benefits. For example my wife's grandmother can't see very well and the powerpoint helps her with the large print see what she couldn't see on paper. So for her to read scripture on the powerpoint is great.
I am glad to hear that the number of those who brought Bibles haven't changed. For those that weren't bringing it anyway maybe we should encourage them to do so. Maybe if we did what Joel does hold up your Bible's...Or ask how many of you brought your Bible's today...Wade am glad that you clean up alot for us as far as powerpoint. Thank you and I always appreciate your comments.

5:34 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Wade,
Not clean up...clear up...You do clean up well...And you made clear your point.
Thanks.
:-)

5:36 PM  
Blogger Mike Exum said...

Okay... to my critics:

I did not read all the comments, so if I fail to address yours, sorry.

First off, let me say that I do not think Preacherman's point is invalid. I just don't see it in Hosea 4. And I do not think his point tells the whole story, probably not even the half of it.

However, I do think it is a shame that most church people know more about American Idol than Bible. That is a real tragedy. We need more Bible. We need to read it, study it and read each others thoughts on it etc, a lot more than we do. It should be a core life shaping force in our communal life. And it really is not.

However, I think the point of all of it is to "Know God" -one of the means to that end. Faith is more than just reading and reciting verses of scripture. It involves loving, worshiping and trusting God. And Adam and Eve had that before the Fall without a single verse.

Hosea, at least in the prima facie evidence, is about broken faith with God in a very sexual like infidelity. Perhaps scripture reading plays a role, but even in modern times at secular schools students sometimes read scripture "for the literary value".

I believe we can share intimacy with God through prayer, song and commitment without knowing a single verse. However, that does not deny that knowing verses can and does aid and increase the intimacy in the others. I am not throwing such knowledge out by making this distinction. Plus, there is such a thing as kenetic knowledge and also intuition. These kinds of knowledge are different from verse reading.

As to relative truth, yes I think truth is relative. Not all truth, but certainly God's truth is. However there has been a Christian pop culture that has arisen among conservative evangelical types that dualizes relative truth with Absolute truth (a myth) suggesting that saying truth is relative amounts to an anything goes mentality. Far from it, I would never suggest that.

God is true if all else is a lie. However, He is the creator who made all that is. That is true and non-negotiable. However, to know this truth is a relational thing. God must be loved to be known fully. And that is a relative thing.

Allow me to lift a quote out of Colossians Remixed by Walsh and Keesmaat that helps explain my position...

"What [we are] struggling with is a view of knowledge (or "epistimology") that aspires toward a sense of objective and absolute finality. And this we contend, is an epistemology that is imposed on the text by those who have embraced Enlightenment definitions of truth. We want to encourage a reading of Scripture that unabashadly abandons such objectivism for a more holistic understanding of knowing.

"In stark contrast to an objectivist epistemology that esteems distance [think deist], detachment, universality and abstractness, we discern in the biblical literature an understanding of truth that affirms intimacy, connectedness, particularity and concreteness. At root, in the Hebrew Scriptures truth is a matter of fidelity. Indeed the Hebrew word emeth was translated in the King James Version as "truth" but is rendered "faithful" in almost all modern translations. To say that God is true therefore means "that he keeps truth or faith with his people and requires them to keep truth of faith with him." Truth, then, is a decidedly personal, social and relational concept in the Scriptures. To know the truth, and to be known in the truth, is fundamentally a matter of covenantal faithfulness, manifest in the concreteness of daily life within a particular community at a particular time. No wonder the old English term for truth is troth. Parker Palmer puts it this way: "To know something or someone in truth is to enter troth with the known... to become betrothed, to engage the known with one's whole self, an engagement one enters with attentativeness, care, and good will"

-Walsh & Keesmaat
Pages 44 & 45

Hope that helps.

Many blessings...

7:48 PM  
Blogger Wade Tannehill said...

Mike,

Very well said. I'll have to put Walsh and Keesmaat on my reading list.

10:34 AM  
Blogger David U said...

Royce, I love reading Max. And I love fishing and football and reading N. T. Wright.

And I don't watch the "Lifetime" channel. Rachel Ray maybe, but not Lifetime. :)

DU

11:11 AM  
Blogger Big Mike Lewis said...

I wonder if we knew Book chapter and verse so well because there were no "lost" people in our churches.

Maybe this is a reflection of our increasing commitment to reach the world?

12:26 PM  
Blogger Ancient Wanderer said...

""""Hosea, at least in the prima facie evidence, is about broken faith with God in a very sexual like infidelity. Perhaps scripture reading plays a role, but even in modern times at secular schools students sometimes read scripture "for the literary value".""""

In verse 6 Hosea uses hadda‘ath and in verse 1 he uses da‘ath elohim. I believe the “knowledge” of verse 6 is most definitely the “word of the Lord” in verse 1. And when you indeed do read the poetry of the verse even for literary value you can see the prima facie evidence that “rejected knowledge” is the same as “ignored the law”. So the point is probably more valid that simply the symbolic act of Hosea being betrothed to a whore.

Ahhh, I love semantics (as used linguistically). Relative means related – related means relationship. Therefore the truth means my relationship with God and that makes truth relative. Now as to kenetic knowledge I’m not sure what that even means. But I’m fairly certain that intuition is not knowledge or leads to truth. “I just know it” won’t pass the prima facie evidence test.

So, is a relationship with God necessary? Yes. Is our relationship with God a result of our knowledge of God? Yes. But I can’t have relationship without first having knowledge or I’m just a whore. (See it does work on some level). Bead stringing is fun but it isn’t going to work in this case. This reminds me of the old sermon from 2 Corinthians 6.14 about marrying outside the church. “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.” A yoke was a devise that fastened two animals together. You hitched them together. Hitched means to get married. Therefore God commands us not to get married to unbelievers!

AW

5:23 PM  
Blogger Ancient Wanderer said...

Oh and...

Did Adam and Eve have “relationship” with God before the written word of God- the Bible? Uhhhh, I’m going to say, YES. Did Adam and Eve have “relationship” with God before the spoken word of God? Uhhhh, here I'm going to have to say, NO. A secular reading of Genesis 1 – 3 will show that God spoke truth to them and that is how they received "knowledge". They didn’t intuit it or receive it by telepathy (is that the kenetic knowledge?) Their relationship with God was based on knowledge (spoken word of God) otherwise God isn't playing fair when He said to Adam "Who told you" and BTW: Adam heard God in the Garden he didn't intuit the presence of His truth.
"Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I COMMANDED you, 'You must not eat of it,'" Sounds like truth is pretty absolute.

AW

ps..that's all for me bye

5:32 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

AW,

Great thoughts.
I agree with your points.
In order to know God we have to know his written word.
His word is truth. Absolute truth.

Thanks for your comments.

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