preacherman

Tuesday, August 22, 2006

I've Been Tagged by Ben Overby

I've been tagged by Ben Overby:

1. One book that changed your life: The Bible
2. A book you read more than once: Too Busy Not To Pray by Bill Hybels
3. A book you would want on a desert island: The Bible off course (but How To Survive and Get Off A Desert Island).
4. A book that made you cry: No Wonder They Call Him The Savior
5. A book that made you laugh: I don't read books that make me laugh
6. A book you wish had been written: A Youth Ministers Survival Guide On How to Deal with Upset Parents, Elders and Staff.
7. A book you wish had never been written: Radical Restoration or Any book by F. LaGuard Smith
8.Book I am currently reading: Kingdom Come by Bobby Valentine and John Mark Hicks
9.Book I am planning on reading: The Spirit of Jesus by Gary Holloway
10. I tag Josh.

30 Comments:

Blogger Stoned-Campbell Disciple said...

Thanks for reading our book. And I also enjoyed Hybels book on prayer, it spoke to me in powerful way at the right time.

Shalom,
Bobby Valentine

11:00 PM  
Blogger Darin L. Hamm said...

F. LaGuard Smith? I read Radical Restoration, care to say why it made the list?

8:30 AM  
Blogger preacherman said...

F. LaGaurd Smith is a lawyer. I just think his ideas would never fly in a practical setting. If most minister tried to put his ideas into practice they would be fired. Just like John Mark Hick's book on communion would never fly in a most churches, not practical. If it was put into practice it would hurt many great and fruitful ministries such as youth ministry. What is it about youth ministry that he can't stand. Does he have some motive against youth ministers.

Ministers don't tell him how to do law, I believe he shouldn't tell ministers how to do church and ministry.

Personally, it seems like he likes to stur up controversy among Christians such as in Who Is My Brother...That book Who Is My Brother has caused much of the division that you see in many of the Churches today. The way he published the Max Lucado letter was totally un-Christian. I think he published it to sell more books and to cause division. I know I wouldn't publish a personal letter in a book. A real friend wouldn't do that. An enemy would. Would you do something like that in a book?

I just think he would be better off writting law books or books on telling Christians how to be godly lawyers, how to have a godly practice, the giving lawyer, or the street lawyer (oh that one's been done already).

Just my oppion.
Darin, it could have been any of his. It is just my thoughts.

10:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do find it interesting that a lot of people in other fields like to tell ministers how to do their job.
Their is a danger in the church when people in other fields write books about how to do ministry especially those who aren't in it 24/7.
Sounds good on paper but can really cause added stress to ministers and ministry staff.
Think about it most churches leadership, elders, deacons, etc. are from other feilds as well. They get their hands on a books that has some "radical" ideas and there my brother is the danger.

Ministry is different that what is written. Ministry is not just ideas, a plan, a program. And many in other fields don't understand that at all.

Minister have been trained in their field why don't others understand that.

I know I am not going to tell a doctor how to practice medicine and I know if I were to write one that no doctor would buy it because I'm not a doctor. Get my point.

Thanks, I agree with you preacherman.

David

11:09 AM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Darin,

Now that I think about I think I put Who Is My Brother On Ben's blog.
And now that I think about it I think that Who Is My Brother has done worse damage as far as ministry, church unity and love towards other christians with differing views.

Sorry for the confusion but as I said before I don't like any of F. LaGaurd Smiths books.

David,
Thanks for you comments.
I totally agree.

11:21 AM  
Blogger Velcro said...

Preacher, I'm on it.

Actually, Doug Fields has a good book Your First 2 Years as a Youth Pastor or something like that.

12:02 PM  
Blogger Wade Tannehill said...

Preacherman,

You remain one of my best friends, but I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of Smith. I don't know if it is un-Christian to publish an open letter to a "friend" in a book, but I don't think you should be assigning motives to Smith, as if he did this just to sell books. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But it's not our place to judge the heart or motives of another person. Approaching someone with what you perceive to be a character flaw is better done in private than by writing them up in your book or on your blog for that matter. You can disagree with their views, but sharing suspicions about their motives is another matter.

I haven't read Smith's book, but probably will now. While I'm not much for "pattern theology", I do know the church would look quite different if we REALLY and TRULY restored it to a perceived New Testamanet pattern. Not only would it be lacking youth ministers (show me where they are in the New Testamanet), but also located pulpit preachers, church buildings, Sunday school, and so on.

And we would be taking the Lord's Supper in the context of a larger meal. It would not be tiny communion cups and a nibble of cracker. It would be a communal feast where we celbrate unity.

You said that some of Smith's and Hick's ideas were impractical. But the practicality of a practice is NOT the litmus test for whether it is true. The litmus test for whether it is true is God's Word. While I think Smith and Hicks are poles apart in many respects, I think they are merely holding up their ideals for restoration and they have every right to do that whether we agree or not.

Yes, if a preacher tried to implement some of their ideas it might get him fired. Some people might leave the congregation. So what!?!?!?! Since when did the amount of disruption caused by a practice become the standard for whether it should be implemented? Were Jesus and the apostles disruptive? The standard must be biblical principles, however much pain it causes. One of the problems I see with located ministers of any stripe is the temptation to ignore first century practice for the sake of keeping one's job. That never bothers me and some day it may cost me. No one said ministry was easy. Is the goal job security or restoring at least the dynamic that existed in the early church?

As far as other people telling ministers what to do, we aren't alone in that boat. I've yet to have a job in any field where there isn't someone who thinks they know how to do my job better than me. And yes, I hear people critique the opinions of their doctors and lawyers.

Now back to Smith, I think he really tries to be fair and balanced. "Cultural Church" wasn't perfect, but it was a step above pattern theology. "Who Is My Brother?" was not perfect, but it was a step above extreme sectarianism. The sectarians probably like Smith even less than you do. His book on women was not perfect, but it was a step above some of the ultra-conservative views I've heard. And while I don't come out at the exact same place as Smith most of the time, he is a thinker. He has encouraged many an ultra-conservative to start thinking just a little outside the box and then some of them surpass him in thier ability to be even less hindered by that box.

He has also made some positive contributions with two devotional books, a chronological Bible, and a book on baptism. For these, he should be commended.

2:33 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Josh,
Thanks about Doug Fields book. I think he wrote that after I got out of full time youth ministry.
I love your blog and the book you chose that you wish had never been written. The Koran. Wow... Imagine how the world would be today had that book never been written.

Wade,
Thanks for your comments as always.
The great thing is we can disagree and don't worry I won't put your response in a book. :-)
You know me I'm open minded. So thanks for your thoughts.
God bless you Wade

8:38 AM  
Blogger Wade Tannehill said...

Preacherman,

Thanks for your gracious and humble attitude. I don't insist that a friend has to agree with me to be my friend, but I would like to at least get your feedback on some things I said as to whether you think I made any points at all. If you don't want to respond here, maybe ny e-mail. I know that you're open minded enough that you do always give everyone a fair hearing and everyone's view consideration. Your humility is one of your many positive character traits. It is a pleasure to call you friend.

11:15 AM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Wade,

Do ultra-conservatives really think for themselves or change anything?
Ultra-conservatives are just like ultra-liberals over re-actionaries, and think they have the answers.

I thought your comments were good.
Understandable. Sorry, if I came acorss to hard on Smith. I know that some of his books have caused problems in the brotherhood.
Yes, youth minister aren't mentioned in the Bible, local preacher, building, etc. Neither is the pattern, mentioned in scripture. Chrisitians trying to restore? What they want? What they like? What makes them feel comfortable? What are we trying to restore and should we try to restore anything at all or should be take Christianity to the 21st century. Understanding this is how Chrisitanity was in the 1st century, 2nd century and so on and we are going to be 21st century Christians and change lives in the world in which we live today?

Would have the apostles been opposed to the way we do it today? Buildings, no they met in houses because of persecution. We don't have communion feasts, apparently neither should have the Corinthians sense they lost its real purpose and meaning. What I am saying is that:
I agree that implementation is not the litmus test for trust. Good quote. But just because it is how it was done by some churches doesn't mean it works for all churches.

Sorry my first response wasn't what you wanted.
I hope this one is.

I appreciate your comments and thoughts.
Most of all your friendship.
What am I going to let a disagreement over an author who we don't agree on mess it up. Duh!.

Talk to you soon.

2:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love Bill Hybel's book on Prayer.
I've read it at least 3 times.
I enjoyed your blog.

Steve, OHIO

2:31 PM  
Blogger Falantedios said...

Some thoughts, hopefully in a brotherly spirit.

1) Paul was a lawyer, too.

2) The most malleable and spiritually inexperienced people in our care should probably be being cared for by the most experienced and properly spiritually formed members of the body, not necessarily the youngest and hippest minister on the staff. Not to mention that such an approach to 'youth ministry' might begin to heal the generational wounds that afflict many of our congregations.

3) They were meeting in homes because they were being persecuted, because they were confronting their society with a message and a lifestyle that ran counter to everything around them. Perhaps if we did the same, maybe we'd have to meet in homes, too.

4) Also, they were meeting in homes because no one thought up the brilliant idea of funding and constructing a big building for them to spend 4 hours or so a week. They did think of SELLING big, valuable properties, but not acquiring and constructing them. If our buildings were community centers, like the synagogues seem to have been, then I could see their relevance to our mission far more so than I do today.

5) I think that's it. Thanks for challenging me with your thoughts and your reading list. Once I finish Foster's book on prayer, I'll try and pick up Hybels'.

in HIM,
Nick

2:55 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Nick,
Thanks for your comments.
I appreciate what you have to say.
I am glad you enjoy my blog.
God bless.

12:18 AM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Nick,

You will enjoy Bill Hybels book very much. I was so practical and helpful in the way I pray now and has help my ministry in terms of a prayerful ministry.
I love anything Bill Hybels.

12:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Preacherman,

I agree with you that what we should be trying to restore in the New Testament is the function of the church. How we living the Christian life 24/7. Showing the world who God is by the way we live.
When we focus to much on form we tend to forget the function. We think that the form is going to save us when in reality it is the function. Living Holy and Godly.

I enjoyed Bobby Valentine's book on Kingdom Come, I have read that book more than once. Lipscomb and Harding can teach us much.

David

12:40 PM  
Anonymous Jeff said...

Preacherman,

I am a youth minister and have read Radical Restoration. His chaper dealing with youth ministers would destroy what I have been called to do. I have a gift. God has given me a tallent to minister to teens and their families. Is my calling not worth the souls of those teens to him I minister for the sake of his radical form? I will not bury my gift. I will use it for God and his kingdom. I will make a difference in the lives of those whom I have been called.

Bill Hybels book on prayer make such a difference in my prayer life. I taught his book to my youth group and have seen a change in their prayers as well. I am having the teen keep prayer journals an idea that we in Hybels book and it is amazing how they can look and see what God has done in answering those prayers.

Thanks preacherman,
I enjoy your blog.
God bless you in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Jeff
Youth Minister and Fellow Brother In Christ

12:57 PM  
Anonymous Jeniffer said...

Preacherman,
I am a believer and devoted Christian woman who attends Willow Creek. Bill Hybels is such a wonderful, Godly man.
Hybel's book "Honest to God" is my favorite book he has written.
I just started his book "Too Busy Not TO Pray."
It has already helped my prayer life in a big way. I haven't got to the chapter on jounaling but I am going to start doing that this week. I like to journal my thoughts anyway. I might as well journal my prayers.

1:35 PM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Yes, Bill Hybels book on prayer should be a must read for every minister and Christian. It is very helpful.

10:11 AM  
Blogger jesusenmi said...

I can't believe that anyone would object to an authors opinion based on what ministries he supports. I think the gospel reaches people not on youth ministries, or old christian minitries, or music mins. ect. Instead I am not sure how God is Glorified by spending millions of dollars on building rather than the millions of dollars being spend on sending ministers and deacons (servants of the church) to the community. Instead the church has gotten lazy and let the Ministers do the work. I can't think of one youth or music minister in the N.T., can you. I never saw a building for the purpose of "church" or the collection done even every sunday only when there were needs. whoa one guy writes and asks questions about the behavior of the church and instead of evaluating how true some of the facts may or may not be and then looking at the evidence in light of the bible we wish the book was never written?

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