Tuesday, November 24, 2009

How Women Are Treated In Churches

I have always wondered do we treat women as second class Christians. Paul tells us that there is "neither male or female for we are all one in Christ Jesus." Do we believe that as believers and church leaders? I believe it is so important that we treat women with respect and allow them to use the talents and abilities that God has given them to do. I believe that many times churches hinder and put limits on the talents, abilities, and roles that God and His Holy Spirit has put in them. Women played a vital role in the N.T. Church. I believe they play a vital role in the 21st century church as well. Women have so much to give to the church and the work of the Kingdom as well.

How do you feel that the church treats women? How does your church treat women? Do you as women feel as second class Christians? Why? What can the church do to change this? Does it need to change the way it allows women to use their gifts and talents and in what ways? Why do some churches put limits on what women can and can't do? Should they? Why or why not? What talents and gifts do you see women using in your church for the Kingdom of God? As a women what do you think you can add to the kingdom? As churches what can we do to make women feel special and an important part of the body of Christ?

What do you think?
Share your thoughts.


Blogger Kansas Bob said...

Often church reflects the culture that surrounds it.. this was certainly true of the early church. I think that we have seen that dynamic at work in the way that women are viewed with regard to leadership positions. The more progressive the church the more women are free to fully follow God's leadership in ministry. Of course many are desiring to hang on to the cultural norms of thousands of years ago.

I think that the question to ask is why is it wrong for a woman to lead men in secular America (many hold management positions) and not in religious America. Cannot both Americas reflect God's kingdom?

10:37 AM  
Blogger preacherman said...

Thanks for your thoughts.
I think that is a great question for us to ask ourselves especially those that are leading the church.

12:04 PM  
Blogger Arturo said...

First you have to look at the background on why women have been traditionally left out of leadership in most churches.
Take for example 1TIM2:11-12 and 1COR14:33-35. They explicitly says that no women should teach men or take any role in the leadership above men. However, it is interesting how Jesus Himself, had nothing to say about this issue, but he kept women very close to Him. Also, you can find women leaders all over the new testament and old testament as well. Women who took leadership above men. Even women leading God´s armies. That should mean something on this issue. You can also read Romans 16:1 includign the footnotes on the NIV version. Acts 21:9
On a more traditional approach, on early Church, women did had leadership leadership roles on the Church. It was on the Council of Laodicea in 352 AC, where that role was undermined for the first time. Later on the fourth Sinode of Carthage on 398 AC it had a second round. With time, it became tradition and it was assumed that women should not teach men.
Now accoring to jewish law, no women could teach men, thus the priesthood was left only to men (Ex 28:1, Num 18:1 However there were events under which women were called to be called prohpetesses: Examples are Miriam and Deborah. Isahias wife was also a profetesse, read Iahia 8:3
Here are the names of just a few women who held leading roles in the New Testament: Phoebe and Junias.
So my conclussion is more like why women do not lead church as often as they should?

10:05 AM  
Blogger jel said...

have a great thanksgivings!

9:39 PM  
Blogger Paul G said...

Hi Preacherman;
Today's Churches do not put up with sound doctrines.
They do what is right in their own eyes.
They ignore the Scriptures and practice their own traditions.
My Bible says that a woman ought not to teach a man or have authority over a man but to remain silent in Church. If she pray's or prophecies (publicly in Church), then she ought to have a sign of authority on her head, so that everyone can see that that woman is under the authority of her husband or a man.
If anyone ignores that, so will he be ignored just like the Scripture says!
The Lord demands that from every woman because of the deception factor and because of the Angels. The man was not deceived but the woman and she was quite deceived.
Kind Regards

6:29 PM  
Blogger cwinwc said...

Paul G - I have a "thought / question" - You made reference about the "man not being deceived ." I've often wondered, did Adam (the man) have a choice when Eve offered him the forbidden fruit and if he did, and he took the fruit, doesn't that me he was deceived as well?

Just something to think about.

1:18 PM  
Blogger Andrew said...

I have recently been part of strongly complementarian churches (two PCA, one EFCA), all of which do not allow female elders or women who hold teaching and ruling authority over the congregation. Yet in no way have I ever felt that women were mistreated. On the contrary, my mother-in-law, who belongs to the EFCA church, has modeled a deep respect for and submission to the male elders there, and she feels free to pursue her role within the church. (Susan, correct me if I'm wrong!) In our current church, the women are every bit as prominent, often leading the worship services, and they hold their own sway, even if they cannot preach or officiate the Lord's Supper.

I have often toed the line between complementarian and egalitarian views, but when a former pastor of mine, Kevin DeYoung (whose RCA denomination is largely egalitarian), preached on women's roles on the church, I found his exegesis and application so compelling that I still feel unable to concede any ground. I think egalitarian churches are out of accord with God's holy Word. On top of that, while I've been greatly challenged in my faith by women, and I've profited from books and commentaries by women, I don't think I could really take a female pastor seriously.

For all of you, go pick up Kevin DeYoung's book Freedom and Boundaries. It's pretty concise, straightforward, but honest exegesis of all the relevant passages.

9:49 PM  
Blogger Kansas Bob said...

Where I struggle most with the complementarian view is how it is limited to some sects of the church and Muslim culture. It seems that this view would be prevalent and applicable to other aspects of life.

If this is a law of the kingdom then it seems that folks who hold this view would also say that in government and in corporate America women should not hold positions of leadership.. at least that would be a consistent view.

Instead complementarians seem comfortable holding this view inside of their churches and mosques instead of saying that this view holds for all of life not just the religious side.

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Blogger Paul G said...

Adam did not have a choice.
He was created for that purpose so that he would sin, just like the Lord told him, "for when you eat of it you will surely die".

Adam was not deceived; he had the mind of Christ and fully understood that the Lord Himself would be born at the appropriate time in the likeness of a man into His own creation to prove Himself to be a mighty savior who is able to save him (Adam and Eve) and all God's children and give them eternal life.

Before the woman was created God gave the commands or instruction to the man (Gen. 2:16). Because he is the head over the woman just like Christ is the head of His bride the Church.

In some Churches you can see the same type of woman like Eve who usurps leadership, headship and authority over the man.And those men fully knowing what the Scripture said and against the command of the Lord submit themselves to those women in the Church.

4:34 PM  
Blogger Paul G said...

I agree with you, those godly women who love the Lord with all their heart, mind, soul and strength would never find it troublesome or a burden to submit to the instructions of the Scripture and the headship of the man, nor do they feel mistreated by those godly men.

Also I agree that sometimes women are better preachers, teachers, leaders, organizers and even more sensitive to the leading of the Spirit of God in the Church than some of us men.

That of course is a blow to our male hyper inflated ego. :-)

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Blogger Wiley said...

My daughter is a Children's Minister with a Master's Degree in children's ministry from ACU and I cannot begin to describe the some of the humiliation and abuse that some male elders, male ministers, and male deacons put her through when she was looking for a place to use her God given talents. One group during an interview said "how can you be a minister or serve on a committee when you are not allowed to speak or be a leader because you are a woman and there are men on the committee" Not all men that did but none of it should have ever happened! It happens because of our male superior attitudes towards women in the church!

Adam and Eve were created equal in the Garden. Gender abuse and restrictions started when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden. Jesus recognized the importance of women by revealing who he was to the woman at the well, by having Mary at his feet ( a place reserved for only the most talented students in Jewish society and rabinical practice), and by showing himself to a woman first after his resurrection. Paul delcared there is no longer male and female when baptized into Christ. Why is it that we go out of our way to make sure we do not discriminate because of race or class status and then turn right around and just totally disregard the rest of that verse and discriminate against women telling them they cannot do this, cannot do that, cannot teach, cannot even speak in the assembly, cannot lead a prayer in the assembly because men are present, cannot serve Communion because that means they are "in a leadership position", etc? I think that the way women are treated in our fellowship has made me more ashamed of our churches than all the infighting, legalistic judgementalism, and church splits ever will! Thank God there are now a few congregations in the US who have females serving in their eldership, ministry, deaconate, and worship services and I pray that they will lead us to a much brighter future and away from the darkness of the gender discrimination that has permeated the churches of Christ for so many years!

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Bible is very straight forward when the actual topic is the role of a woman in the church. There are many verses that make a reference to woman's ability to have spiritual ability. Also of a woman in good standing with the most High. There are instances were woman are honored for their work in the church. I would like to know of verses that directly approve of them leading the church. It would seem to me, I'm a simpleton though, that when a Spirit inspired Paul commented to the Church at Corinth in his letters on the position of the woman in the church, he used the sin of Eve for the position God has delegated to them. I would be less than nothing to ever deduce that God, all knowing, didn't have His Will known only to be ignored. Surely Paul, a very educated man, blessed with overflowing Spirit, had little difficulty explaining this position in his letters. Now I am a sinner, and unworthy of God's Judgement, I can only thank God endlessly for his love of us to allow His Son Jesus Christ to shed His blood for us. I know that many souls were saved by women leading in the church. I also know that many more could be saved if we would follow the Lords will, by the influence of the spirit to want to do whats right out of love for our God instead of trying to actually think we can rationalize our sinful ways. Man has always sinned on his own, and always will, so why is it so hard to admit that this issue isn't based on equality, it's based on a Judgement from God Allmighty. Believe when I say I love my sisters in the lord, just because they don't lead doesn't mean that they are not just as important to the body as the head... your brother In Christ Jesus "little toe" dean.

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